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Originally Posted by Gamma1734
hi, thanks for featuring my videos. i like both a lot. the vsl has more detail. the garritan is a bit easier to use out of the box for me.

One thing I haven't seen you address in your videos is the lack of una corda samples with VSL. Doesn't that bother you?


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Today is the last day of the EDU-discount at VSL and I'm still deciding which piano to get😊 Among the VSL pianos, objectively speaking, I think the Steinway is the strongest. It has the least artifacts and the dynamic range is stellar with great samples from very soft to very loud. It is however I bit bright for my liking and the middle range feels a bit on the cold side. I guess it's perfect as a "real" concert grand voiced for big concert halls and will probably blend perfect with an orchestra. The VSL CFX gives me, in a way a better playing experience even if it has more artifacts than the Steinway and doesn't play as good as the latter in the really soft nuances. The CFX is also a great match with my controller, it is a really familiar feeling ad really feels like playing a Yamaha grand. As there isn't any possibilities to try the Garritan and after reading all your great advises I think I vill go for the VSL CFX, Now I just have to decide between standard and full. I think three microphones is the maximum for a great playing experience on my computer but maybe the additional microphone options in the full version is still worth it...?


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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Today is the last day of the EDU-discount at VSL and I'm still deciding which piano to get😊 Among the VSL pianos, objectively speaking, I think the Steinway is the strongest. It has the least artifacts and the dynamic range is stellar with great samples from very soft to very loud. It is however I bit bright for my liking and the middle range feels a bit on the cold side. I guess it's perfect as a "real" concert grand voiced for big concert halls and will probably blend perfect with an orchestra. The VSL CFX gives me, in a way a better playing experience even if it has more artifacts than the Steinway and doesn't play as good as the latter in the really soft nuances. The CFX is also a great match with my controller, it is a really familiar feeling ad really feels like playing a Yamaha grand. As there isn't any possibilities to try the Garritan and after reading all your great advises I think I vill go for the VSL CFX, Now I just have to decide between standard and full. I think three microphones is the maximum for a great playing experience on my computer but maybe the additional microphone options in the full version is still worth it...?

Standard CFX + standard Bosendorfer upright! Covers a *lot* of ground (assuming you're happy to spend up to the price of CFX full!).

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Originally Posted by CraiginNZ
Standard CFX + standard Bosendorfer upright! Covers a *lot* of ground (assuming you're happy to spend up to the price of CFX full!).

That's an idea😊. I just bought the modern U så I don't know about another upright though..... But I will consider it🤔


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Ok, so I bought the VSL CFX. It's good and the realism is great. However, the regulation/voicing/tuning is a little uneven to a degree that is kind of annoying.
There is a few note that is out of tune and strangely tuned differently in different velocity layers. This is most noticeably on E7 where softer layers have a lower pitch, but you can hear in on other notes as well. There are also some notes that are panned to right or left heavily compared to nearby notes that makes it a bit awkward when playing with headphones. I wish there was a way to adjust this in the note-per-note edit but I don’t think there is, or am I wrong?
Maybe this is a considered approach from VSL to make it more lifelike and realistic and perhaps it does on a recording, but as a playing/practicing piano it could be a little more even IMO.

Does the Garritan has these kinds of ”issues” (there is still a couple of days left on my two weeks trial period😊)?

Other than that it’s a great piano😊🎶


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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Does the Garritan has these kinds of ”issues” (there is still a couple of days left on my two weeks trial period😊)?

If you have a particularly sensitive ear (and it sounds like you may), then probably. People have reported that Garritan CFX has a few minor timbre differences in some mics, as well as a note or two that seem a smidge out of tune. I haven't noticed it myself, but I probably just have a plebian ear.

I guess the question is whether it's too distracting to enjoy (and also whether similar issues in an acoustic piano would also be distracting).


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Does the Garritan has these kinds of ”issues” (there is still a couple of days left on my two weeks trial period😊)?

If you have a particularly sensitive ear (and it sounds like you may), then probably. People have reported that Garritan CFX has a few minor timbre differences in some mics, as well as a note or two that seem a smidge out of tune. I haven't noticed it myself, but I probably just have a plebian ear.

I guess the question is whether it's too distracting to enjoy (and also whether similar issues in an acoustic piano would also be distracting).

Thanks Gombessa, what’s a plebeian ear, I never heard that expression before😊? I can assure you that the acoustic instruments I usually play has far worse artefacts most of the time. But I also think that’s different because it’s not static, the instruments changes all the time and I can think that “it will be fixed the next time the technician/tuner shows up next time”. With a digital instrument the artefacts will be the exact same forever (unless VSL will update it). But after all, I guess all instruments have their quirks and the VSL CFX is a nice instrument so I think I’ll keep it😊


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By the way, if you notify VSL about issues you found, there is a good chance they fix it with next library update.


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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Ok, so I bought the VSL CFX. It's good and the realism is great. However, the regulation/voicing/tuning is a little uneven to a degree that is kind of annoying.
There is a few note that is out of tune and strangely tuned differently in different velocity layers. This is most noticeably on E7 where softer layers have a lower pitch, but you can hear in on other notes as well. There are also some notes that are panned to right or left heavily compared to nearby notes that makes it a bit awkward when playing with headphones. I wish there was a way to adjust this in the note-per-note edit but I don’t think there is, or am I wrong?
Maybe this is a considered approach from VSL to make it more lifelike and realistic and perhaps it does on a recording, but as a playing/practicing piano it could be a little more even IMO.

Does the Garritan has these kinds of ”issues” (there is still a couple of days left on my two weeks trial period😊)?

Other than that it’s a great piano😊🎶

Well, the VSL CFX is particularly bad when it comes to keeping the piano in tune, in my opinion. Also, for me, the biggest problem I find with VSL Synchron pianos is that they don't have una corda (soft pedal) samples. The Garritan CFX does have them, and the tuning is better managed. And with careful mixing, you can reduce the hiss that is felt in the lower velocity layers.

I'm now mainly using the Garritan CFX if I want that Yamaha sound.

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Originally Posted by David Lai
Well, the VSL CFX is particularly bad when it comes to keeping the piano in tune, in my opinion. Also, for me, the biggest problem I find with VSL Synchron pianos is that they don't have una corda (soft pedal) samples. The Garritan CFX does have them, and the tuning is better managed. And with careful mixing, you can reduce the hiss that is felt in the lower velocity layers.

I'm now mainly using the Garritan CFX if I want that Yamaha sound.

Hi David.

Thank you for your view on this topic. Yes, it seems odd that VSL let the tuning problem get pass in such ambitious libraries as the Synchron pianos. And I agree that with "over 4200 samples per key" it should contain una corda samples as well. I also think the voicing could be a little more even and it seems to lack really soft samples (in the pp-pppp range). It has it's strengths though and the strongest one IMO is the dynamic range and how naturally it shifts timbre through the dynamics, which really is a Yamaha signature behavior. Is Garritan equally good in that regard? I read somewhere that Garritan has around 20 velocity layers whilst VSL got around 60, I don't know how important that is though. About the hiss, I heard about it and it's good to hear that you can deal with that. It's a real bummer though that you can't try out the Garritan before buying...

Last edited by johanibraaten; 10/16/21 04:39 PM.

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Originally Posted by VladK
By the way, if you notify VSL about issues you found, there is a good chance they fix it with next library update.
Thank you for your suggestion, it's good idea and I´ll do that. However, I checked in at the VSL forum today and it turned out that there are some users that reported the tuning issues back in 2019 so I guess it's not a high priority for VSL...


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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by David Lai
Well, the VSL CFX is particularly bad when it comes to keeping the piano in tune, in my opinion. Also, for me, the biggest problem I find with VSL Synchron pianos is that they don't have una corda (soft pedal) samples. The Garritan CFX does have them, and the tuning is better managed. And with careful mixing, you can reduce the hiss that is felt in the lower velocity layers.

I'm now mainly using the Garritan CFX if I want that Yamaha sound.

Hi David.

Thank you for your view on this topic. Yes, it seems odd that VSL let the tuning problem get pass in such ambitious libraries as the Synchron pianos. And I agree that with "over 4200 samples per key" it should contain una corda samples as well. I also think the voicing could be a little more even and it seems to lack really soft samples (in the pp-pppp range). It has it's strengths though and the strongest one IMO is the dynamic range and how naturally it shifts timbre through the dynamics, which really is a Yamaha signature behavior. Is Garritan equally good in that regard? I read somewhere that Garritan has around 20 velocity layers whilst VSL got around 60, I don't know how important that is though. About the hiss, I heard about it and it's good to hear that you can deal with that. It's a real bummer though that you can't try out the Garritan before buying...

Hello! Nice to hear from you.

Yes, you are right that VSL CFX has more velocity layers than Garritan. I don't know about you, but I would much prefer something that does all convincingly well than something that has great areas of interest, while not so good in others. That's why, if only talking about the CFX's out there, I would choose Garritan because of the inclusion of una corda samples, and that it does most / all things well.

I personally own the VSL Steinway, and although it is a library that I also play from time to time, I still turn my attention back to Garritan, ACD and the Modern U.

Hope this helps! smile

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Originally Posted by David Lai
[quote=johanibraaten][quote=David Lai]

I personally own the VSL Steinway, and although it is a library that I also play from time to time, I still turn my attention back to Garritan, ACD and the Modern U.

Hope this helps! smile

OK. That's it. Someone has to tell what kind of setting you guys use for ACD. I don't care what piano you have.

So many people, love that VST and all I hear is ugly muddiness and mundane tone.

I even went back to it this week and still nothing.

Ron

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