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Cutec #3161370 10/02/21 11:00 AM
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We have a dehumidifier in the basement, and yes, you can set the target humidity level wherever you want (in increments of 5%). It has a sensor and will shut off when the tank is full.

Sgisela #3161382 10/02/21 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sgisela
We have a dehumidifier in the basement, and yes, you can set the target humidity level wherever you want (in increments of 5%). It has a sensor and will shut off when the tank is full.

Thank you! I went ahead and ordered one.


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Talão #3161383 10/02/21 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Talão
But then I wonder about the accuracy of my hygrometer: if I move it a few inches, the number can change significantly. Does anyone have a super precise hygrometer to recommend?
I assume it's an electronic hygrometer? My portable clock/thermometer/hygrometer seems pretty responsive (the humidity reading stabilizes faster than the temperature reading when moved from room to room). I think any such device would be able to give accurate reading. Mine looks like this

[Linked Image]


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Talão #3161386 10/02/21 11:35 AM
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Mine is similar to Sgisela's. You can set the target in 5% increments. In practice it starts when it is 2% under the target and it shuts off when it is 2% above it. It shuts off automatically when full. Alternatively you attach a hose to the machine so that the water can be pumped into the drain, so then you never have to empty the water container and it doesn't shut off.

Cutec #3161500 10/02/21 08:11 PM
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Thank you all for the responses. I made sure to order one with auto shut-off when full and with the humidity level setting as well.

cygnusdei: mine looks similar to yours, and this is what most of the ones for sale on Amazon look like. I just don't know how precise it is. When the dehumidifier arrives I'll place the hygrometer near the unit and see if they "agree" on the humidity level.


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
If you look at a spectrum analysis (some ETD software displays this graphically), the fundamental frequency of the low bass of the piano is almost nonexistent in the sound that we're hearing, rather we're interpolating a lot of the information from the upper partials which are stronger than the fundamental pitch (even on larger grands). Almost every recording of a concert grand that's done in a hall rolls off frequencies below 40Hz, and sometimes higher than that, to attenuate HVAC, street, and other undesirable sounds.

They are not quite non-existent. I can't post a picture for some reason, but you can find partials' sound pressure for G1 (25dB) on page 32 here: https://www.jjburred.com/research/pdf/burred_acoustics_piano.pdf (Figure 5.14). The difference for C1 (Figure 5.13) is even smaller (20dB). But of course perception is a tricky thing and 20 dB (for C1) is a lot (relatively) and partial's decay plays a role too. On the other hand lower frequencies propagate farther and are not absorbed so easily. Does it matter in practice? I don't know, but I seriously doubt 16cm speakers of N3X can create enough sound pressure at 50Hz (G1, 6m wavelength). For me N3X sounded substantially thinner than 5'4" GC1. That being said DPs have their applications, there is no volume knob on acoustic, no headphone connector, no MIDI output etc.

Last edited by Victor66; 10/06/21 09:13 PM.
Cutec #3162394 10/06/21 09:48 PM
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Interesting to see from the chart that so many of the partials, even higher ones, are louder than the fundamental, and massively so. Also that the onset of the fundamental pitch is later than all the partials. A 6 1/2” woofer in a proper enclosure can probably push out plenty of SPL at 50Hz.

Thanks for linking the paper.


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Talão #3162507 10/07/21 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Talão
Question for pianogabe, gwing, and anyone else who uses a dehumidifier at home:

Do these devices have a humidity gauge on them so that you can set it to a certain level? (as in, keep dehumidifying until you reach X% and then stop, like an AC keeps a set temperature and turns on and off as needed). Or does it keep dehumidifying and you need to keep an eye on a separate hygrometer so that the room doesn't get too dry?

Yes, you just set your target humidity and it turns itself on when the room rises above that. There is a pretty accurate digital display of the actual humidity for you as well.


Originally Posted by Talão
When their tank is full, do they turn off so they don't spill water on the floor or do you need to keep checking the water level every day?

Yes

Originally Posted by Talão
I live in south Florida and my house can get pretty humid (above 60%) when the AC isn't running, so I'm considering a dehumidifier. But then I wonder about the accuracy of my hygrometer: if I move it a few inches, the number can change significantly. Does anyone have a super precise hygrometer to recommend?

Many thanks in advance.

I recommend the Govee digital hygrometer because it (at least mine) is accurate out of the box and you can calibrate it if needed although most of the hygrometers I tested were accurate enough (within 2->4%) and unless a lot of care is taken it isn't easy to actually calibrate better than this. The main reason I recommend it though is that it has a data logging function and talks to an app so that you can graph the changes in humidity during the day and across the months to get a real picture of how your humidity is changing. That is a lot more useful than just glancing at the device once in a blue moon.

An alternative is the Inkbird humidstat. That is not just a gauge but also a controller so that you can control both dumb humidifiers and dumb de-humidifiers for full control, if you need it.

60% humidity is high but tolerable if it is constant. It is definitely not OK if it is cycling between 60% and significantly lower when the AC is on. For this case do get a hygrometer - it doesn't have to be a good one or calibrated as it is the humidity swing between AC on and AC off that matters here not the absolute humidity.

Last edited by gwing; 10/07/21 11:07 AM.
Talão #3162532 10/07/21 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Talão
But then I wonder about the accuracy of my hygrometer: if I move it a few inches, the number can change significantly. Does anyone have a super precise hygrometer to recommend?

I have an Acurite 1083M digital hygrometer that has worked well for the last few years. I don't know if it is super precise, but its reading doesn't change randomly with position. It certainly picks up changes in humidity, which is what is important to me.

A piano technician scared the living daylights out of me when he asked "what is that?" upon seeing the hygrometer on my piano. What is that?! And you're a piano technician?

Kawai has a page on humidity in the documentation that came with my piano. I won't type the whole page but the paragraph titles are:
* Be cautious of extreme humidity (with details on the risks of high and low humidity)
* Avoid fluctuations in humidity (with cautions on heating and air conditioning use causing condensation)
* Shield your piano from moisture (with advice to keep the piano lid closed, when not in use, and room windows, too)

It states that relative humidity of approx. 45% is ideal, while levels between 35% to 70% are acceptable. Below 25% and above 80% can be especially harmful. So I don't stress too much about it, but keep an eye on the hygrometer.

Last edited by Lotus1; 10/07/21 12:47 PM.
Cutec #3162692 10/08/21 10:49 AM
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Thank you very much gwing and Lotus1 for the responses and hygrometer recommendations! My current hygrometer has a "history" mode that keeps track of lowest and highest humidity levels since the last reboot. Right now it's showing the lowest has been 45% and the highest 65%, but it has been several months since its last reboot and I can't tell if the fluctuations were slow or not. The app functionality of the Govee device seems appealing to me now.


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Talão #3162728 10/08/21 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Talão
The app functionality of the Govee device seems appealing to me now.

It is appealing, all sorts of interesting things come to light, for example:

I have a distinct humidity gradient between floor and ceiling so humidity does vary with position.

The humidity readings do change if the device is moving, and presumably also if there is a breeze, the humidity doesn't actually change but the device readings do, a bit.

My humidifier keeps the room generally within a 5% humidity range as it cycles on and off, yet when measuring inside the piano the cycle fluctuations are only 0-5 -> 1%. My piano has plenty of 'air/sound ports' and so I imagine will vary more than most uprights which will be better sealed.

You're mileage will vary, but there is a lot of interest to be had here if you are so inclined. Although perhaps my time might be better spent playing the piano :-)

Last edited by gwing; 10/08/21 03:57 PM.
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