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..."theory" was going to be in the title at the end but I ran out of space!

Anyway, I am sure this question has been asked a million times here, but I just scrolled through and browsed the most recent 20 pages, and didn't see it specifically. Feel free to point me to a thread.

So I've had a couple years of piano lessons as a kid, that I never really paid attention to (much less practiced!). Started playing brass instruments in middle school, up until I majored in music for my first two years of college (then dropped it completely). Point is, I know theory, have rhythm, a very good ear, can read music, etc.

BUT I lack piano specific skills. Specifically my biggest challenge when I've tried to practice piano in the past...30 years, VERY much off and on (but never seriously), is playing with my two hands together. Maybe it's because I came from such a "solo" instrument like the trumpet, where you literally have three keys to play, and only ever use one hand to play those keys...dunno. I suspect it's also just the way my brain is wired? I can literally read the hardest piece of music that you put in front of me, WITH both hands...but it will be agonizingly slow.

I have always had a hard time understanding how ANYone (especially me) can play seemingly two difference parts, with different rhythms, AT THE SAME TIME...at speed. And an ORGAN? Fuggedaboudit!

All that as a preface to say that if someone could list some software or online lessons that are made for someone like me (has the music theory and sight reading knowledge, but lacks piano skills), if there even is such a (quality) software or app, I would appreciate it!

There is a lot of useful info here: https://online-academy.informance.biz/ But if you can afford a good teacher that would be much better, certain things are a way easier to show and correct in person.

The most important concept you have to grasp is that though you may be advanced in trumpet playing, you are a beginner on piano, and start from that. Forget that you ever played a musical instrument, and think like a beginner......then you can stop beating yourself up or worrying about the way your brain is wired, but instead, start from scratch, or near it.

Co-ordinating hands together is a slow process, taking months to years. Playing at speed takes even longer. After all, a highly accomplished typist who can type a 100-page novel in five minutes has good finger dexterity and coordination for her typing, but she wouldn't expect to be able to play the piano within a few days, much less play fast. The skills just aren't the same.

There is no short cut to be gotten by using any software stuff. If you are serious about learning piano properly, the best way is to get a good teacher. You don't want to develop bad habits that can derail your progress, especially with your evident impatience (which makes it much more likely that will happen)..........

A lot of the thing with learning piano is to trick the brain into thinking that the multiple simultaneous things you need to do are just a whole lot of sequential things. So if you look at beginner music in method books, a lot of the structure alternates the work between hands and takes advantage of the fact that you can continue a sound by doing nothing (by holding keys down) and then creates the music by alternating left and right hand tasks.

Little by little more simultaneous tasks are introduced but you work up to it. You are not trying to play multi-part counterpoint on day 1. And if you are learning something complex for your level, you can learn each hand separately until you can do each on auto-pilot to make combining easier.

The commercial apps like Piano Marvel and Playground Sessions are useful, but they are aimed at people who have no background in music and need feedback if they are playing the wrong note at the wrong time. As you can already read and hear well, a lot of that will be wasted on you.

I’d suggest the important thing for you is carefully chosen piano pieces that don’t get too hard too quickly. Method books are ideal for this and are what a teacher would give you anyway. Scales and arpeggios are important too.

I am learning the piano, sax, and violin at the same time. For the piano and sax, I had a couple of years of "not-so-good" group tuition as a child. The violin I recently started as an adult. IMHO, the reason why the piano is so much more difficult than the sax (in my case) or the trumpet (in your case) is that there are 2 lines of music for the piano (treble and bass clefs) to deal with, whereas the sax, trumpet and violin have only the treble clef. For me, it's the brain processing 2 staves, as well as translating the multiple notes (and different rhythms) on the 2 staves into the fingers of each hand that makes piano so much more demanding. There's a lot going on there! And that's compared with translating 1 note on the treble clef to 1 fingering on your trumpet. That's nothing to do about being wired differently. I think it's pretty normal what you're experiencing, especially if you're an older adult starting out again.

I'd say the best option is to get yourself a teacher and start with the mindset of a beginner who can already read music. If you cannot get a teacher for whatever reason, since you can read music already, get one of a few popular starter adult piano method books and start from the beginning, such as Faber or Alfred's or other. You might find you get through the first couple of levels quickly. I personally don't suggest software or apps. One-on-one lessons online with a teacher are very good as well. Good luck!

Oh, btw, I also played the organ as a kid.

Hi ClemFandango!

I hope I don't come across as harsh. However, you may have sight reading knowledge, but unless you can sight read and play this on the piano, hands together, I would call it note recognition rather than sight reading. (We have endless discussions sometimes about what is sightreading, but there seems to be consensus about that you have to be able to play it.)

I also think that you'll probably have a hard time finding online lessons that are made for someone who has the music theory, because if you take the trouble of making online lessons, why would you narrow down your group of possible students to those that already have the music theory? So when music theory comes up in those lessons, it is just for you to fast forward it.
Anyway, the very very best online lessons for wanting to learn to play the piano you can find at Piano Career Academy. You will be taught how to play with the right technique. Just as a trumpet player needs to learn the correct way to breathe into the trumpet, a piano player needs to learn the correct key attack. You will be introduced to playing hands together in a gradual way, and you will find that you can do it.

You didn’t say what kind of music you want to play but for non classical music there is

Pianonote
Pianowithjonny
Pianomarvel
Pianowithwillie

I follow Piano Lessons on the Web. Tim the online teacher posts new videos on YouTube regularly.

I took violin in school before piano. In the beginning you get into pieces where the LH alternates with the RH playing 1 note at a time (no overlap). Next some LH intervals & chords for accompaniment. You can lean LH & RH parts separately before putting the 2 hands together. Start slow tempo.

Thanks, all for the helpful responses.

Let me clarify my big but. And I quote: "BUT I lack piano specific skills"

I appreciate the concept that I should approach learning piano as if I am a complete newbie to music (but that's also kinda hard to do). I saw two people mention that, and it makes sense.

Also wanted to say that I am not impatient, or trying to cut any corners. I know what it takes to truly LEARN an instrument, and fully willing to do that (and that learning, if you are serious, never stops)

And yeah, to the point that most if not all software is going to start from "This is a whole note!" and go from there, makes sense. Market opportunity? :P

Addressing specific comments:

"You didn’t say what kind of music you want to play but for non classical music there is"
Everything. Definitely classical (love me some Chopin!), but also blues, jazz and other genres. I am genre ambivalent.

"I hope I don't come across as harsh. However, you may have sight reading knowledge, but unless you can sight read and play this on the piano, hands together, I would call it note recognition rather than sight reading."
Not harsh at all, and I promise you can't hurt my feelings. I agree with your correction. NOTE RECOGNITION it is (and not being snarky, that is a significantly different thing than sight reading...)

"For me, it's the brain processing 2 staves, as well as translating the multiple notes (and different rhythms) on the 2 staves into the fingers of each hand that makes piano so much more demanding. There's a lot going on there! And that's compared with translating 1 note on the treble clef to 1 fingering on your trumpet."
Excellent point, you stated the issue better than I did. I think the mental block here is dealing with two STAVES at once, as opposed to simply one hand vs two, or even 3 keys vs 88 (which is also mind blowing, for a "simple" trumpet player).

"think like a beginner......then you can stop beating yourself up or worrying about the way your brain is wired, but instead, start from scratch, or near it."
Love it, thanks.

So "the board" in general seems a bit anti-app/anti-software for learning. Any particular reason? Are you all piano teachers?! :P Seriously though, is there a component of learning via app vs say a book, that has pitfalls I am not aware of? Of course I get that you won't get posture correction, or proper hand position correction, etc., but surely they aren't BAD for self-teaching are they?

I’ve been using Alfred’s Group Piano For Adults to re-resume playing piano after an extended peripatetic phase where I had to concentrate on more portable instruments. This is not the same as the Alfred Adult method for true beginners, which is the method with that vast dedicated thread on the forum.

The advantage of Alfred’s Group method is that one of the intended audiences is non-piano music majors, so it spends *much* less time going over the stuff you (and I) already know. It dives right in to getting you to play and read with two hands, and presents the theory sooner and with a bit more intellectual rigor—the normal Alfred Adult methods (there are several very similar versions) work much harder to avoid “traumatizing” true beginners with too much theory. ETA: it also includes material for sight reading practice, duets/group playing, (if you wanna play along with the included recordings/MIDI), and more. So it is even more “all-in-one” than the official Adult All-in-One.

Here is the group method (you can get a better price if you look around):
Alfred Group Piano

And here is the standard adult method aimed for true beginners, the one with the mega-thread on the forum here:
Alfred All-in-One

If you were once a music major you will be able to understand everything in the group method without a teacher, though of course you will be lacking the real-time feedback on ergonomic technique that only one-on-one teaching can provide.

But one of our members here is taking lessons from a teacher who has been making very professionally produced videos to go with this Alfred Group method, which I myself have found quite helpful. Here’s the playlist (she starts with the very basics, and is gradually adding videos):

Alfred Group Piano Videos by Dr. Janci Bronson

ETA2: the problem with apps is that they really can only measure if you’re playing the right notes at the right time, and can’t yet recognize things like dynamics, and thus they will often tell the learner they’re playing well, when really they’re merely playing accurately, but not musically.

That single caveat you mentioned is a HUGE one. If you don't get feedback on your technique then you are practicing the bad technique and engraining it forever in your motor memory. It then becomes extremely difficult to get rid of that bad habit. Even if you do correct it you might revert to your old ways when under pressure - i.e. during a performance.

If you want to learn to play properly and eventually reach an advanced standard then you absolutely must have direct feedback from a real human teacher (not a computer) on a regular basis.

Yes, yes, yes!! This is sooooo true. And I am happy to assure you that the online piano course that I recommended (PCA) does have a very good feedback teacher.

Depends on what you mean by a line of music. Here's five: Fugue in C# minor BWV 849. Of course still 2 hands only If you master it properly you should be able to play any one of 5 louder than the others. I haven't mastered it yet even for 3/4 voice pieces.

Recording & uploading music online is becoming common. Even a quick recording with a phone can tell a lot about someone’s playing. Definitely a good idea to record a few pieces for feedback.


In my younger days a cousin tried to teach me a few piano pieces in a beginner book. 1 piece has repeated LH chords. Having to play 3 notes together kept me away for years. I learned all the major & minor scales, chords & intervals in violin class but can’t play chords on a violin.

After starting piano, I think the hands coordination problem is over exaggerated. Start with the basic major & minor scales and get comfortable with the fingerings playing 1 octave both hands together 1 octave apart and then in contrary motion (LH going down C-B-A-G-F-E-D-C & RH going up C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C at the same time). My teacher makes her students do these basic exercises and they really help with hands coordination.

When it comes to playing 5 notes at a time I’d go slow. Try a few fingerings & get the feel of playing all the notes together evenly. When I’m learning a piece, I learn blocks of notes separately. It’s going to sound choppy. After repeating the piece a few times I get it to flow better.

Finding a good teacher is the most efficient. If you want to focus on piano technique and choreography, frankly I do not see many good free resources. My piano teacher recently roll out a list of piano technique tutorials, which may be helpful:

I wondered where a bad habit of playing between the black keys unnecessarily comes from. Now I see it comes from some teachers, too. At 5:30 this lady manages to play a C major exercise between the black keys, something I think I've never seen before. Moreover she manages to demonstrate 'wrist circles' while playing between the black keys... Ouch!

And generally I have to say I dislike both what she demonstrates and what she says conceptually. Using arm weight requires only minimal wrist adjustments, and excessive wrist motions like what is demonstrated on that video are really a hindrance to using arm weight and a technical flaw in general. I would not recommend anyone to learn from this video.

At 5:30 she demonstrates a circular motion and it would be very inconvenient to play it all outside of black keys, even if it's C major. Forward motion is a part of the circle and curling fingers is a big no. As for the extent of that motion, she obviously targets beginners and a bit of exaggeration is not necessary a bad idea at that stage. Also there are very few (if any) pieces where going between black keys is not required, so it's good to learn this habit early.

For the most part of the video she demonstrates her circular motions in C major correctly, playing on the wide surfaces of keys, and she doesn't seem to consider this inconvenient. It's closer to the end of the video when her focus weakens and her bad habit becomes progressively apparent, firstly starting to insert her 2nd finger between the black keys and then other fingers.

You mean moving a hand forward to the closing lid is a part of a 'wrist circle'? No.

It's not a bad habit to play between the black keys when it is necessary, it's a bad habit to play between them unnecessarily.

It's not a bit of exaggeration, what she demonstrates is an unacceptable, technically incorrect way of playing. And she never even mentions any exaggeration. The degrees of wrist abduction and adduction that she shows are way inappropriate. She talks about alignment and at the same time shows a total misalignment. It is an awful video to say honestly.