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Originally Posted by KenBakerMN
So, here's something strange. I have a notation program on my computer that can output MIDI in real time (Finale) through the USB. I connected my computer to the CA99 through the USB and played the song. On the CA99 it came out using the piano sound I had set on the CA99 rather than using the instrument sounds I had programmed in the MIDI file.

Has anyone else experienced that, and if so what did you do about it?

All right, here's one problem I think I've been able to solve when connecting my computer USB to the CA99 and sending MIDI to the instrument.
1. Set the piano sound to something other than one of the "SK-EX" sounds.
2. Set "Multi-timbral Mode" to On2 (doesn't work with SK-EX).
3. On "Channel On/Off" turn off channels 1 and 2.
4. In the MIDI file don't use MIDI channels 1 and 2.

Doing all this I can run my play-along practice MIDI files through the piano and, you know, play along.

But still no idea why MIDI files off the USB flash drive are so quiet.

Last edited by KenBakerMN; 09/24/21 01:38 PM.
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Originally Posted by Pianico
Originally Posted by fr34k
Send me the Source Code of the firmware and UI, however and in whatever it was written, and howto compile it such that it it's installable on the devices and I'll do it for free. But just do it! Just fn do it already!
Got some news for you, the UI software is open-source wink https://www.kawai-global.com/support/downloads/
Being a software engineer I'm tempted to try it out myself but also scared, can we brick the piano or touch panel?
I know that but that's "only" the android backend. The firmware (that produces the sound) and UI are not open source. Especially the UI is signed by a certificate. If Kawai did a half decent job, it would be impossible to use a custom version. If they just send the code with instructions to 2-3 of us who are capable of doing this, this problem would finally end. With enough time it's possible to fully reverse engineer that thing anyways, but that's a trouble I didn't pay 4500€ for! Update that darn thing or let it be updated by volunteers.
(Recap: AFAIK: the piano consists of the noise generator ("piano chip") and a separate tablet, that communicates with the "piano chip" via MIDI. That's why there are technically 3 firmwares, 2 of which were updated in the past (the chip and the UI.apk), the android platform wasn't updated as of yet and is the only open source part))

Originally Posted by Pianico
Being a software engineer I'm tempted to try it out myself but also scared, can we brick the piano or touch panel?
Technically, you can brick your device with every firmware upgrade. It depends a little of how the firmware is processed and how internal checks are made, but technically yes! Of course!

Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by fr34k
Since I'm using it as a dumb instrument, I rarely change settings, but I wonder if I'd experiment more, if it wouldn't be as frustrating, changing tonal colours, instruments etc. I love the sound, that's the main reason I bought a KAWAI over a competitor, their handling of the software, however, is all but laughable and absolutely disgraceful. The engineers (or rather those deciding, "it's not worth it") should be ashamed of themselves. For the UI, it takes a skilled programmer a week at most, the firmware as well. Then 5-6 rounds of beta-testing, that equates to 3 months at the absolute most. Send me the Source Code of the firmware and UI, however and in whatever it was written, and howto compile it such that it it's installable on the devices and I'll do it for free.

The user interface defines a product just as much as the sound and the action does.

This is true for any product. If the user interface is bad, the product is bad.

This is correct. Although the effect of the annoyance depends on the actual usage.

Last edited by fr34k; 09/24/21 02:51 PM.
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Quick question for James….

Just for the record, and for all here to know…

Is Kawai genuinely aware of the total dissatisfaction that exists with the operational software of their high end CA models? I have been telling myself for over a year that these issues will surely be fixed by the company. For over a year the content of this thread has remained largely about the chronic implementation of the UI and for almost a year I have been using work around after work around with my CA99. Other features I just don’t use…its just too hard.

I know its not on the same scale, but a bug within my photo editing software that affected my new camera make and model was investigated, acknowledged and totally fixed within one month. That alone, will have me purchasing new versions of this software over and over again.

I have supported Kawai many times in this painful thread honestly believing these issues will be addressed in their latest flagship models. But Kawai have lost me. The other respectable brands on the market would have to have HORRIBLE tone and feel qualities to justify living with this, and of course they don’t.

And just in case a certain comedic professional poster comes on with great words of wisdom and stabilising counter points of view……

Don’t tell me how to justify or be content with the considerable outlay of money (for me) and the underwhelming satisfaction and enjoyment I derive from the product. We all play piano….that’s one thing, but the instrument is also a big part of that process and the enjoyment gained.


Can the company just at least be upfront with its customers, and tell us straight…

Is an update being worked on or not? If the answer is once again vague or non specific I for one am taking it as a no. That will then be the bitter pill we will all have to swallow.

Seriously would anyone accept a television that will only store channels once and then not able to be updated when new channels are added to a particular stream without erasing everything and starting over. A toaster that will only cook at three of the five selectable settings or anything that doesn’t work as INTENDED and promised (in the beautiful brochures) by the manufacturer?

Really disappointed.

Again thank you James for at least showing up and helping everyone here where you can. Many of your suggestions have helped many of us with the little issues that can be sorted.

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Unhappy new member. Bought the CA79 hesitantly after seeing all the complaints. Was reassured by vendors that "the people with issues are the ones who post online about it, not the satisfied people". Lo and behold I have a key click.

The keys click as you can hear. One time I heard an especially egregious plastic "pop" after playing a key, as if a hard plastic piece inverted or something.



What do I do now?

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Originally Posted by iimthomas
Originally Posted by deadlymajesty
Originally Posted by Khavens
Try these links to hear the sound we are talking about. Sorry for the quality, I recorded it with my phone. The sound is faint, I would almost describe it as a stereo type buzz.

Sound 1

Ca79 noise

After hearing about a number of reported cases of noise in the left speaker by playing bass notes loudly with maximum(-ish) volume levels, I'm slightly concerned about this potential issue as well as a few isolated cases of noisy keys.

I'd like to think Kawai shouldn't be worse than Casio in terms of design and quality control. I understand that acoustic piano keys are not actually that quiet; the only reason we don't hear them is because we can't turn down or off the sound like a digital. People are often surprised to hear the noisy acoustic action when the piano is equipped with a silent system or is a hybrid. Coming from the super noisy keys of Casio PX-100 (from a long time ago), and PX-730, as long as I can't hear any noise when playing at normal/medium volume, it's probably all right. Obviously, I'd rather have super quiet keys even when playing at low volume, which is expected from high-end non-hybrid digital pianos.

In contrast to key noises which can be demonstrated easily, people haven't really uploaded any clear recording of this bass noise (aka white noise, hiss, rattle, buzz, etc). In light of the fact that Kawai (James) has privately released beta firmware to change the speaker EQ to alleviate this problem for those who are affected, it might not be a non-issue after all.

Without more examples, clearer recordings of this bass noise, I tend to think it's just the metallic resonance the samples captured from the Kawai acoustic pianos (SK-EX) which is reproduced by the new rendering engine.



Here's is a clear recording of Steinway D's bass notes showing similar noises. Can people with CA79/CA99 who have experienced the buzz/rattle/hiss noise tell me whether this is the same noise that plagued your CA79/CA99?

Here's a recording of my CA79 that I got last week. It's a very annoying issue and a lot more apparent in person.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bG_IfITQKPRoYJ3peY_qFHrPwahCL6Th/view?usp=sharing

I think this was at a normal-ish volume too. You can definitely hear it all the time when playing. The beta firmware did help it out by like 80-90% at normal volumes but you can still hear it at MAX volume. It's disappointing that they need to resort to a firmware fix instead of just having non-defective amp/speakers in every unit.

Thank you for the video.
I was surprised to hear because it sounded very similar to my piano issue.
I have CA99 and I hear the same buzzing noise!

Kawai James, Could you send me the beta firmware as well?

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Sometimes when playing (especially noticeable with headphones) my touchscreen will come to life as though it was tapped when it wasn't. Does this happen to anyone else?

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Originally Posted by Tupac
Unhappy new member. Bought the CA79 hesitantly after seeing all the complaints. Was reassured by vendors that "the people with issues are the ones who post online about it, not the satisfied people". Lo and behold I have a key click.

The keys click as you can hear. One time I heard an especially egregious plastic "pop" after playing a key, as if a hard plastic piece inverted or something.

What do I do now?

I will check mine to see how loud it is. When I was trying them out, the Kawai was actually one of the more quiet ones.
The yamahas sounded just like your video. Would be better to ear the sound while you are playing something.

Ron

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Hello dear CA79/99 owners,

could someone of you please check out the MIDI properties of the GFIII action, especially if the piano transmits reliably low MIDI values below 25 when playing pp/ppp? I found that the Kawai MP11SE didn't send reliably values under 25/30 and I am very curious if this changed for the GF3 action.

Thank you and happy playing!


Roland FP-30 | Pianoteq 7
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Originally Posted by Tupac
What do I do now?

You return it and order a Yamaha Clavinova. grin


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Originally Posted by eddiepiano
Hello dear CA79/99 owners,

could someone of you please check out the MIDI properties of the GFIII action, especially if the piano transmits reliably low MIDI values below 25 when playing pp/ppp? I found that the Kawai MP11SE didn't send reliably values under 25/30 and I am very curious if this changed for the GF3 action.

Thank you and happy playing!

I can generate as low as 11 pretty reliably. 10,9,8,7,6,5,4 are sometimes there, 1 works too, but 2 & 3 are extremely hard to get. 10-4 are relatively easy when playing from the let-off point.
I hope this helps.

(Tested on a CA99 using Bluetooth MIDI)

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Hello,

Originally Posted by fr34k
Originally Posted by eddiepiano
Hello dear CA79/99 owners,

could someone of you please check out the MIDI properties of the GFIII action, especially if the piano transmits reliably low MIDI values below 25 when playing pp/ppp? I found that the Kawai MP11SE didn't send reliably values under 25/30 and I am very curious if this changed for the GF3 action.

Thank you and happy playing!

I can generate as low as 11 pretty reliably. 10,9,8,7,6,5,4 are sometimes there, 1 works too, but 2 & 3 are extremely hard to get. 10-4 are relatively easy when playing from the let-off point.
I hope this helps.

(Tested on a CA99 using Bluetooth MIDI)

This interests me as well. Thank you for answering, @fr34k!

That doesn't look too bad for the low range. How is the range all the way up to 127, though? Again thanks!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

PS I am kinda shocked if indeed the MP11se doesn't do this properly!

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Hey fr34k,

thank you for your answer! That seems like a much better velocity range for using the GF3 with VSTs than the GF1.

@HZPiano: Yes, I wasn't expecting this behaviour too.


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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello,

Originally Posted by fr34k
Originally Posted by eddiepiano
Hello dear CA79/99 owners,

could someone of you please check out the MIDI properties of the GFIII action, especially if the piano transmits reliably low MIDI values below 25 when playing pp/ppp? I found that the Kawai MP11SE didn't send reliably values under 25/30 and I am very curious if this changed for the GF3 action.

Thank you and happy playing!

I can generate as low as 11 pretty reliably. 10,9,8,7,6,5,4 are sometimes there, 1 works too, but 2 & 3 are extremely hard to get. 10-4 are relatively easy when playing from the let-off point.
I hope this helps.

(Tested on a CA99 using Bluetooth MIDI)

This interests me as well. Thank you for answering, @fr34k!

That doesn't look too bad for the low range. How is the range all the way up to 127, though? Again thanks!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

PS I am kinda shocked if indeed the MP11se doesn't do this properly!

During normal play, values between 40-95 are common. If you’re hitting hard 115 is fairly easy to achieve, but for 125 you really, really need to put in some effort. Though, I am able to reproduce 125ish, 127/128 I’m not able/not willing to do. It seems to need fairly excessive force to hit the ceiling.

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Hello,

@fr34k, Again thank you!

That all looks hopeful for the GFIII as implemented in the CA79/99.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

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Originally Posted by ronlefebvre
Originally Posted by Tupac
Unhappy new member. Bought the CA79 hesitantly after seeing all the complaints. Was reassured by vendors that "the people with issues are the ones who post online about it, not the satisfied people". Lo and behold I have a key click.

The keys click as you can hear. One time I heard an especially egregious plastic "pop" after playing a key, as if a hard plastic piece inverted or something.

What do I do now?

I will check mine to see how loud it is. When I was trying them out, the Kawai was actually one of the more quiet ones.
The yamahas sounded just like your video. Would be better to ear the sound while you are playing something.

Ron


thats exactly what I mentioned in some of my previous posts. I am on my third 'action' (1 CA59, 1 replaced CA59 actionbed, 1 upgrade to CA79) and ALL of them did this.

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Thinking of a Ca79 after playing one in a shop. Read the whole thread re noises,rattles, buzzing and software glitches. In a word should I still proceed with purchase or wait until problems are resolved or if not wait for a ca80 or whatever new dp comes out?
Buy or wait?

Last edited by Cutec; 09/30/21 12:52 PM. Reason: Spelling mistake
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The Ca79 finnaly arrived here on Chile, at a whooping $5130, i paid $3080 for my CA78, and base price was $3850, so about $1300 extra. So, no interest upgrading any time soon.


My piano history in about 15 months: Artesia PA88w -> Yamaha P45 -> Kawai CN 24 -> Kawai CN 37 -> Kawai CA 78
Done with: Clair de Lune - Debussy, Waltz Op. 64 no. 2 - Chopin. Looking for a new piece, kind of learning The Mandalorian theme, and practicing with Etude Op.10 no.1 - Chopin.
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I wish there would be good advise. The 79 series is rather news and who knows when an 80 series will come out. Also the issues havent been addressed even after a year - and the clicking problems go back all the way to 5-6 year old models - so my expectations that these will be fixed by Kawai are at this point very low.

On the other hand, in the given price range and if you are lucky to have a unit thats not problematic - there is nothing that compares to it. You might also want to consider upping your budget for an NV-5 or to go for a traditional upright as an alternative.

Last edited by flowing; 09/30/21 09:17 PM.
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We are putting our CA99 on the market because we have too many pianos at home.
Putting it about 85% of the price we bought new and no bites (4 years of warranty left).
Is it the market or the resell value of CA99 is a lot lower than I thought.
We are in Australia btw.

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Originally Posted by Martin Solo
We are putting our CA99 on the market because we have too many pianos at home.
Putting it about 85% of the price we bought new and no bites (4 years of warranty left).

The warranty doesn't transfer to a buyer of used piano. It's gone once you sell it.


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