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#3160052 09/28/21 02:07 AM
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Guidance please:

I tend to follow videos from YouTube:

The right hand is playing:
D F A ( T 3 5)
D F (T 3)
E G (2 4)
B D F A (T 2 4 5)

But for me the last chord feels more natural (or easier if u like)with T 2 3 5

However, I'm thinking maybe I should practice it the T 2 4 5 way to get used to using the 4th and 5th to jump a key ?


Thanks

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Originally Posted by Bebe1980
B D F A (T 2 4 5)

But for me the last chord feels more natural (or easier if u like)with T 2 3 5

For me, T 2 3 5 also feels better. I usually change the fingering if I come up with one that feels better to me. However, not until I have given the editor's fingering a chance. So my five cents: play T 2 4 5 a couple of more times, and if T 2 3 5 still feels better, feel free to change. cool


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That is very usual that beginners feel more comfortable with 1235 rather than 1245. But it is important to develop over time the ability to play with 4 and 5. It is usefull in a number of situations.

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Actually, I think that if you feel more comfortable playing Bdim with 1235 then your hand may not be aligned properly. The distance between all the notes is the same (unless there are any sharps that you forgot to mention) so in order to play 1235 you need to turn your hand slightly to the right where 3 is no longer in the middle (since it's playing F). I think 1245 is a more balanced / better aligned position for this chord.

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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Actually, I think that if you feel more comfortable playing Bdim with 1235 then your hand may not be aligned properly. The distance between all the notes is the same (unless there are any sharps that you forgot to mention) so in order to play 1235 you need to turn your hand slightly to the right where 3 is no longer in the middle (since it's playing F). I think 1245 is a more balanced / better aligned position for this chord.

Actually, I disagree, because I think you should move your hand slightly - you slide your arm and turn your hand a bit so each note is played perfectly aligned.


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Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Actually, I think that if you feel more comfortable playing Bdim with 1235 then your hand may not be aligned properly. The distance between all the notes is the same (unless there are any sharps that you forgot to mention) so in order to play 1235 you need to turn your hand slightly to the right where 3 is no longer in the middle (since it's playing F). I think 1245 is a more balanced / better aligned position for this chord.

Actually, I disagree, because I think you should move your hand slightly - you slide your arm and turn your hand a bit so each note is played perfectly aligned.
Are we talking about arpeggios or blocked chords?

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I've played guitar, bass, and upright bass off and on for fifty years and as a bucket list thing started learning piano at age seventy. I've had all sorts of teachers and talked to many musicians and when it comes to fingering the answer is always the same... Do what works for you.

All of us our hands are different so no one size fit all approach. The electric guitar is a baby in the world of instruments to lots of approaches to fingering. So for myself I've found the best approach is try out a fingering system, give it a fair amount of time, then if any of it doesn't feel right start tweaking it to make it work for you. Don't just ignore the common fingering systems, but don't be afraid to change them to work for your hands.

Now playing piano I've found "do what works for you" even more important, especially since I'm into improv based music. With classical you practice and plot out you fingerings and some take the time to make their fingers do what might not even feel right for their hands. But playing improv based music where there is no time to plan fingers you're focus needs to be on the music you're playing in the moment. So you work on fingering concepts when in practice sessions, so when in a playing mode you can rely on your subconscious to make good fingering decisions for you. So knowing your hands and their capabilities is very important.

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Originally Posted by MrShed
I've played guitar, bass, and upright bass off and on for fifty years and as a bucket list thing started learning piano at age seventy. I've had all sorts of teachers and talked to many musicians and when it comes to fingering the answer is always the same... Do what works for you.


I think that is fine for experienced players who have already developped their technique. For beginners, that should not be an excuse for avoiding to develop hand capabilities. The differences between people is to a large extent overated. Yes there are differences but common fingering works for the vast majority of players and certainly the ability to use 4 and 5 together is one of the most common and usual fingering. And it is one of the most common difficulty all beginners experience when learning to play chords and arpeggios.

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Originally Posted by MrShed
"do what works for you"
In principle yes but you need to be proficient in many different fingerings to really decide (which is why a teacher's guidance is highly recommended). If you're into classical then you may need to specifically practice awkward/unnatural fingerings such as, say, holding 2 and 4 and playing the thumb behind 4 or trilling with 3-4 while holding down 1-2, because more advanced music demands such fingering. The trick is to figure out how to do it while staying relaxed.

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Originally Posted by Sidokar
Originally Posted by MrShed
I've played guitar, bass, and upright bass off and on for fifty years and as a bucket list thing started learning piano at age seventy. I've had all sorts of teachers and talked to many musicians and when it comes to fingering the answer is always the same... Do what works for you.


I think that is fine for experienced players who have already developped their technique. For beginners, that should not be an excuse for avoiding to develop hand capabilities. The differences between people is to a large extent overated. Yes there are differences but common fingering works for the vast majority of players and certainly the ability to use 4 and 5 together is one of the most common and usual fingering. And it is one of the most common difficulty all beginners experience when learning to play chords and arpeggios.
Sidokar - respectfully, I disagree. My last teacher, Peter Feuchtwanger, used and taught non-standard fingerings routinely as do those who carry on his work today. He also eschewed the "hold the ball" hand position, and had us play with flat fingers - like Horowitz, among others.

I have found that even beginners can learn, e.g., to change fingers when repeating a note, or even to switch fingers while holding a note (like organists). I have also found that fingerings what work for me, given my own hand size and structure, may not necessarily work for others differently endowed.

Finally - there is absolutely something to be said for learning "standard fingerings". My work with David Saperton taught me how extreme speed can be attained using them.

In conclusion: I have my students learn the standard fingerings, modify as necessary, whenever necessary. They also learn non-standard fingerings and how to experiment and be flexible.


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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Actually, I think that if you feel more comfortable playing Bdim with 1235 then your hand may not be aligned properly. The distance between all the notes is the same (unless there are any sharps that you forgot to mention) so in order to play 1235 you need to turn your hand slightly to the right where 3 is no longer in the middle (since it's playing F). I think 1245 is a more balanced / better aligned position for this chord.

Actually, I disagree, because I think you should move your hand slightly - you slide your arm and turn your hand a bit so each note is played perfectly aligned.
Are we talking about arpeggios or blocked chords?
I read the OP as referencing a blocked chord. I think the choice of 1235 or 1245 will depend on where your hand is on the keyboard. If you are playing in front of your body, you would need to twist your hand to play 1235 and would have poor alignment between your forearm and the middle part of your hand, usually your middle finger. If you are playing high(er) on the keyboard, then 1235 may work better, with better alignment of the forearm and the middle finger.


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Originally Posted by Seeker
I think that is fine for experienced players who have already developped their technique. For beginners, that should not be an excuse for avoiding to develop hand capabilities. The differences between people is to a large extent overated. Yes there are differences but common fingering works for the vast majority of players and certainly the ability to use 4 and 5 together is one of the most common and usual fingering. And it is one of the most common difficulty all beginners experience when learning to play chords and arpeggios.
Sidokar - respectfully, I disagree. My last teacher, Peter Feuchtwanger, used and taught non-standard fingerings routinely as do those who carry on his work today. He also eschewed the "hold the ball" hand position, and had us play with flat fingers - like Horowitz, among others.

I have found that even beginners can learn, e.g., to change fingers when repeating a note, or even to switch fingers while holding a note (like organists). I have also found that fingerings what work for me, given my own hand size and structure, may not necessarily work for others differently endowed.

Finally - there is absolutely something to be said for learning "standard fingerings". My work with David Saperton taught me how extreme speed can be attained using them.

In conclusion: I have my students learn the standard fingerings, modify as necessary, whenever necessary. They also learn non-standard fingerings and how to experiment and be flexible.[/quote]

Seeker, I think, respectfully, that you are missing my point. Modifying fingering as necessary is not an issue. But modifying them because one does not have the necessary skills to play them is another. We are not talking here about specific situations which require particular fingering, nor about people who have very particular and specific issues, but about a very simple mainstream fingering. Being able to play with finger 4 and 5 in arpeggios and chords is a basic ability which a player with "normal" hands must be able to master.

And I said I can understand that for advanced pieces and places which require particular extension or flexibility, a certain fingering may be better suited for some and less for others. But for beginners, they should be able to play a standard fingering, and if not it usually means they need to practice. I think lets not mix situations which require extreme speed and basic fingering for beginners.

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Use 4, not 3.

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Thanks all

They are blocked chords not arpegio and I'm pretty ambivalent about which way to go but having read the opinions here I am going to try and change to the 4 - as I'm just a beginner still developing strength and technique.

Even though 4 does feels harder to start with it actually feels slightly less awkward after. Compared to using the 3 it lacks power but hopefully that will come with practice.

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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
Actually, I think that if you feel more comfortable playing Bdim with 1235 then your hand may not be aligned properly. The distance between all the notes is the same (unless there are any sharps that you forgot to mention) so in order to play 1235 you need to turn your hand slightly to the right where 3 is no longer in the middle (since it's playing F). I think 1245 is a more balanced / better aligned position for this chord.

Actually, I disagree, because I think you should move your hand slightly - you slide your arm and turn your hand a bit so each note is played perfectly aligned.
Are we talking about arpeggios or blocked chords?

Qazsedcft, I was talking arpeggios. Of course, for blocked chords, I agree, 1245.


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