Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Insulted a Kawai salesman with straight talk

I think this is a rather bizarre approach. There have been thousands of threads chronicling visits to dealers, but this is the first time I can remember someone advocating this kind of approach.

I doubt many dealers would say "We don't do any prep because most people can't tell the difference" even if that was the case. Some will say how great their prep is which is only sometimes true. Tuning, regulation, voicing, and cosmetics are all a question of degree. So asking if a piano is in tune or regulated is, I think, asking an ill defined question. "Ready for sale" means far different things to different people.

I think very few people, with the exception of excellent techs and concert level pianists with playing experience on many pianos, have the knowledge and experience to know how well a piano is regulated or voiced. Probably many more people, especially those like the typical PW member, would know if there are serious problems which is something far different. A person might know they don't like the feel of the action but that does not necessarily mean the piano is in poor regulation.

I think many people try out a large number of pianos when they visit a dealer. Should the customer, on each of those pianos, ask the dealer what condition it's in? Asking about one or two pianos or asking about the dealer's general level of prep of their pianos might be OK but more than that I think most dealers would get offended.

In terms of voicing, a piano could be voiced well in terms of the evenness of the sound but still not be to a customer's liking. The same is possible for regulation.

I think it's far more reasonable and the usual approach to express any concerns/questions about a particular piano to a dealer and, assuming one is reasonably interested in the piano, see if they will try to make the piano more to your liking. This can certainly be done without offending the dealer the way the OP did.

whatever. . . .

Beautifully put, Rich.
I think the issue is HOW MUCH preparation is expected?
With all the carbon fibre in the Kawai action one would think the adjustments would be on the stable side. I don't know how much the hammers are "played in" at the factory, but that could be a minimizing factor as well. I believe, based on things I've read, conversations I've had with people in the business, that there is some not insignificant variation in level of dealer prep expected that varies with the makers, and to some extent, the price point in their line-up.

But, to repeat, "Beautifully put, Rich", and, in principle, I completely agree with you.

As to the unfortunate situation with the OP and the salesperson, I can imagine a scenario where the in the days immediately preceding his visit, the weather changed, and with it the shop went from cooling to heating, and the RH went down by 20% or more (Good-bye even stable tunings). On top of that the technician is facing difficulties with health challenges in the family and is unavailable. Into the shop comes a potential buyer. What to do? Should he say, "please come back another day; we're just not ready for prime time today"?

That would be a tough call for a commissioned person to make. I'd be inclined to inform the potential customer, once identified as a high end seeker, that the pianos are just coming up for their fall tuning (or whatever it should be called) and to keep that in mind during the auditioning. But then, thank the Good Lord, I don't have to make a living on commissions.

MY two cents :-)

One approach might be when you go to the dealer just say what piano you are interested in, and in trying their floor model if you don’t like it you can ask them about the possibilities of prepping the piano. They might be willing to meet you half way and tidy up the regulation and voicing pre-sale, and then when the piano is delivered you get your Shigeru MPT visit.

It’s good to remain positive and take a positive and friendly approach with dealers. If you don’t ultimately like the product they’re offering and the service they’re offering then go elsewhere.

Also, even at the best dealerships with the best technicians on hand, the pianos will have bad days. The thing is the weather can be very changeable and as the air conditioning or heating regulates itself to compensate the pianos will change. That’s just how it is. There are several reasons for pianos not sounding great at dealers beyond a penny pinching manager.

That said I have known a dealer who before 2010 in their flagship store did not prepare the pianos well at all, and they were coming out of the factory rough, and it was a situation not worthy of their name or legacy. I think that has changed for the better, but these were tier one pianos and they never had a good example in stock, and technicians looking after the pianos after sale didn’t have much to say about the brand after that. As I said I think that situation has improved but it did a lot of damage to the brands reputation worldwide

It is very common in the US for pianos in showrooms to be slightly to severely out of tune. There are showrooms where this is not the case - typically those with good climate control and attention to detail. There is a correlation between the quality of the instruments and their showroom condition. A Kawai place selling 100 uprights a week to families with kids is not likely to have tuned any of them nor the three grand pianos in the sunny front window. However, a Steinway private warehouse showing typically yields well-prepped instruments.

One place in Houston is a good example of both - they have the main showroom full of barely tuned uprights, Pearl River, Kawai, Yamaha, etc. But if you are serious they will take you to the locked, climate-controlled bunker across the street to see larger and more fabulous Bechsteins, Steinways, Bosendorfer, etc typically in fairly good tune.

You have to have a thick skin in sales. He'll get over it. Don't worry about it.

The OP is far from worried about it. He, unfortunately, doesn't think he did anything wrong.

He is correct.

.
Good point.

On the other hand, "I would have thought" lines of thinking rarely have a positive outcome.

I'm of the persuasion that you usually catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Insults due to straight talk can happen, and sometimes when we don't mean to deliberately "insult" someone.

Also, our current mood and current circumstances can play a role in these kinds of things. Perhaps the dealer was feeling badly about his store tuner's wife's condition, and the OP's words just didn't set well, and got the irritations started.

Either way, it can be a learning experience for us all.

On the other hand, some people enjoy and take pride in "straight talk" and deliberately insulting others. I don't think that was the OP's premeditated intentions, but it happened none the less.

I've unintentionally insulted others by something I said. Sometimes it can be worked out and rectified and sometimes not...

I won't say where this quote comes from, but it has been a wise saying for me over the years... "be swift to hear and slow to speak".

Rick

Fellow licensed bean counter and top-school MBA, here. Check out Seiler's ES and ED lines. Just got an ED-168 that wasn't pre-owned. Couldn't be happier. The Renner action and Seiler's patented soundboard technology are a real treat for the ear. This baby sings like no piano I've touched in 50-plus years.

I do get the attention to detail and work ethic thing. It's our blessing...and curse.

Hey Rick,

I know where that's from...☺

So I'm generally a pretty mild person. However, if I've had two (or esp three) cups of coffee, I have been known to say and do things (or react in ways) that I would not normally. It's hard to control...it just happens. (Its actually happened here on PW on occasion and people have noticed). After the caffeine wears off I'm back to normal. It's just one of those things. I have had to apologize on occasion for overreacting (UTI).

It could have been me in that showroom under certain circumstances...if you know what I mean.

Just sayin...

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

You know, Peter, I'm sort of the opposite... when well caffeinated (mornings) I can be very cordial and polite, even under adverse circumstances, and when de-caffeinated, I can be a bit snappy if provoked.

But I try to be nice and polite all the time, for the most part.

Also, just another thought about insults, when you post video recordings of your music online or on social media, the critics start coming out of the woodwork, and can be really mean and nasty. So, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...

Rick

I know what you mean...

28 years ago, I bought my disabled brother a laptop, and it ended up being defective. We took it back to the big box retailer where we'd got it. I forget the whole rigamarole, but we ended up at the circus freak squad desk as part of the process to return it.

I have no idea what came over the tech, but he reached over, flipped the laptop onto it's top, and then with two fingers drug it across the counter and down several feet to where his station was. Sure, so plastic and formica aren't going to generate much friction, but any imperfections in the counter top, or grit there, is going to scratch the computer! My brother and I simultaneously gasped in horror, and, sure enough, the top had a couple of conspicuous scratches on it.

Needless to say, a heated discussion ensued, in which the squad guy actually said that the brand new, fresh out of the box laptop, with a receipt from just the night before, "was probably already scratched!"

Regardless, we just wanted to return it and get another, but then he said it wasn't in "original condition." Yeah, because he just scratched it. But it was defective anyway...

Finally he went off to ask a manager about it and came back saying that their solution was that if we upgraded the memory they'd install it for free, as if that was a big deal. I had no intention of upgrading the memory (which the manager thought would fix the problem), and even if I did, I wouldn't need to pay someone to install it (my brother actually earned his living at that time as a PC tech, and I'm no slouch with a computer either).


So, where's all this going? Well, I was triply stressed about it because it wasn't cheap, and I also wanted my brother -- who had a pretty difficult time of it most of the time -- to have something nice, and I was only going to be in Seattle visiting for a couple of days... I blew a gasket and blurted out something that to this day I still can't believe I said. I meant to imply that offering us something we don't need and could even do ourselves if we did wasn't giving us anything at all (esp. considering they expected me to pay for the replacement memory). So as the switch flipped and I lost it, I meant to say something like "we don't need our diapers changed," but it came out weirder, not profane but odd enough to understandably be offensive. So then the squad guy started screaming and yelling.

My brother, who was always unflappable, just started repeating, "go get the manager." And then he pushed me away and said to just wait in the car. A short time later he came out with a new one. So, yeah, honey works better than vinegar.


That's not the only time I've blown a gasket. But perhaps the most memorable.

Too late to edit...

BTW, times have changed. I bought a new MacBook Pro last Winter at the same big box retailer, and it was defective. I was dreading going back, but they took it back, no questions asked, and gave me another. I think the big retailers have learned that taking returns is one place where they can really shine.

May also offer some insight into where their margins come from.

I understood what you meant brdwyguy.You basically meant contacting the dealer about the pianos you are interested in before your next visit.This is what I would have done.