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As some of you may have read in my last thread, I just bought Kawai RX-3. I have been playing a Yamaha Clavinova CLP-785. I am not yet a very advanced player but I do play 2 -4 hours a day and really enjoy practicing and working on increasing my repertoire.

I am thinking I will sell the Yamaha if I can get a decent return for it. But am wondering why some/many of you own both a DP and acoustic.

Other than the obvious (using headphones) do those of you that own both really play both often? What value do you find in owning both? Recording/composing? Curious to know if I should maybe rethink selling it.


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I don't own a DP, but there are people who enjoy playing with various virtual pianos (modeled or sampled), although this requires a setup connecting the DP to a computer. Think of it as the luxury of playing on a piano that can sound like a Yamaha CFX, Steinway D, or Bösendorfer 290 at the flick of a switch

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I own both a DP and an AP, and you couldn't take any one away from me. I play and practice on both, but do spend more time on the DP for the obvious reason that the household does not go crazy (the AP is LOUD). Incidentally, I am only interested in the piano sounds on the DP and rarely use any of the others. The onboard recorder is a plus and I do use it occasionally.

It also provides me with instruments with each a different keyboard touch, which helps adaptability for the (rare) occasions when I play on pianos elsewhere.

So when working out new songs/tunes, practicing technique or working on new jazz piano concepts the DP is the way to go. Once things are well on their way, I always make sure to try and transfer these to the AP.

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I have a beautiful Yamaha C3 acoustic grand and a Kawai ES110 digital piano. I play for pleasure on the grand, and use the ES110 (permanently connected to PianoTeq) for fun and for recording. The best of both worlds!


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I own two DPs with a third (Yamaha P-515) due to arrive 10/2. The two stage pianos are primarily for gigs but since I'm sort of semi-retired after fifty five years of gigs, the P-515 will reside in the office bedroom. It will be nice not to have to use the dreaded phones like on the CP4. I might upgrade the CP4 to the Yamaha YC88 for select gigs I accept but no hurry. I returned the CP88. Loved the sound but the action felt off when playing live.

The AG N3X is working out so well for our living room, in that I can keep the volume low and not bother my wife, I'm rethinking a plan we had for getting a high quality 7'er for in there.

When I'm in the detached 20' X 20' well insulated studio in back, it's much more quiet and seems easier to really focus in for serious practice. I like the seclusion and no street noise - we have the house windows open literally everyday of the year.


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Drew - if you have space, my advice would be to hold onto the DP for some time after your RX3 is delivered and see whether and how much you use the DP. As long as you have space, give yourself time to figure out whether in practice, it will be something that you will use. If you find you don’t use the DP much, you can always sell it at some future date.

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I definitely use both.
I use my stage piano for playing in a band, playing with Pianoteq late at night, and recently for online jamming. My delay times for online jamming are quite poor because most servers are hosted on the other side of the world, but you may have better luck depending on where you live.

I use my acoustic pianos the rest of the time. You don't have to boot them up, so they're good for a quick song on my lunch break / whenever the mood strikes. Knowing that my neighbours can probably hear my acoustic pianos encourages me to focus.


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I too play primarily for my own enjoyment, stress relief, and just plain fun.

That said, I have a few acoustic pianos, that I really enjoy. I prefer to play the acoustics, but I also have a Casio Privia PX310 digital stage piano, and a nice Roland keyboard amp, although the Casio has built-in speakers; it sounds really nice with the Roland amp though. I also have a pretty decent, small venue Yamaha PA system and a few mics.

Again, I just play for fun and my own entertainment. I have taken the digital piano and my PA system to some special events, some outdoors, where I was invited to perform. Plus, sometimes I'll jam out on the digital, experimenting with all the different drum-beats and voice combinations. That's fun too.

Oh, and my two youngest grandchildren love to sing into my microphones with the PA system, and so does their granddaddy... smile

The Yamaha Clavinova is a nice digital piano, although probably not so easily portable as a stage/slab digital piano. Still no reason not to keep both, unless you just need more space.

All the best!

Rick


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Another reason to own both of an AP and a DP might be the cons of getting an AP with silent addon which means a significant modification of the action in the AP which makes it hard to almost impossible to play piano not to mention pianissimo.
And this might not be intended by everybody when buying an acoustic piano.
I am up to just this buying an DP and a separate AP owning a Kawai K300 ATX2.

Last edited by audiophon; 09/25/21 08:03 AM.

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For one reason only, nearly silent practice(key thumping is a thing and will drive people nuts) to not disturb others in the house.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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I have both: the DP was purchased a few years ago, when my acoustic piano needed work which would make it unavailable for about six weeks.

If I had concerns about disturbing my neighbors or others in my Household, I would definitely have two separate instruments rather than an adaptation of the acoustic.

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When I bought my acoustic, anticipated would never play the digitals again.
Nope, still play everything.
Pros and cons to each.
At the least, get practice with a variety of actions and environments.

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Originally Posted by stemPianist
When I bought my acoustic, anticipated would never play the digitals again.
Nope, still play everything.
Pros and cons to each.
At the least, get practice with a variety of actions and environments.

I have had the opposite experience. I thought I would do a fair bit of silent practicing on the digital. But the acoustic is (much) more enjoyable for me to play, it turns out my family doesn’t mind the non-silent practice, and the DP is not in the most convenient location in the house (it’s currently in the basement). So I almost never play the DP these days. But if I had young kids, or were practicing in the middle of the night, or were in an apartment with neighbors, or a number of other circumstances, I might play the DP a lot more.

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I have kept both my DP setup and my Estonia L190. I’m not using the DP much lately but it’s light and easy to transport. It’s also a great input for studio software.


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Hi Drew, I haven’t had both yet but I have Kawai GL20 and intend to purchase a digital or hybrid one. The key reason is AP becomes very disturbing to the others, especially when I practise the technique exercises. First of all AP is seems acceptable but once my teacher gave me more difficult exercise, my practice impacts everyone. So I think you should keep DP for a while before making any decision.

By the way, can you share your feelings on the touch between RX3 vs CLP-785? I am considering to purchase 785 or 775 up to my budget smile Thanks.

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StemPianist - nice job on the DIY piano - I build tube stereo amps so appreciate the soldering skill!

VinV - Well, I'll try to make this brief and my disclaimer is I am not an advanced player but have been a musician my whole life and have messed around on a lot of pianos. I really researched my purchase of the 785 and decided I didn't want to spend the extra money on a hybrid (also didn't want any maintenance). I really like the action on the 785. It is a bit hard to compare because the sound and responsiveness are different but it is easy to transition from the Rx-3 to the 785. There are definitely subtleties playing the Kawai vs the 785 but the feel is pretty similar. Now, my teacher has an old Steinway (40 yo) that has the original action and I really don't like playing that piano. The action feels sluggish and uneven, but that's to be expected with a piano that old. (I hope she is not on the forum!).

You would have to try the hybrid to compare, but I have been pretty impressed with the action on the 785. I also love having the Bosendorfer sample and use that more than the CFX. It is nice to have the individually weighted keys to mimic grand piano action. My one complaint is that I am not able to get a really noticable difference between ff and pp. That could of course be me, but it is easier on the grand.


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All helpful responses. I forgot to mention that I do have a small Roland that I take camping (we go for a couple of weeks sometimes). So that makes 2 DPs and an acoustic. I can't tolerate the Roland for very long but if I needed some other sound for recording, that would do it.

I like the suggestion of keeping it for awhile to see. I do think this is a good time to sell it though as Yamaha is backlogged on manufacturing and these are hard to get right now. Ah, decisions . . .


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Drew,
I'd advise you to sell your Yamaha CLP-785 precisely for the reason you just pointed out above ... the supply of digital pianos is constrained at the moment and it may be easier to find a buyer for one of the most expensive CLP Clavinovas than in normal times. That said, I kept my digital piano when I upgraded to an acoustic grand a few years ago. Let me explain why.

I returned to the piano a few years ago, after several decades away, with a digital Yamaha DGX-660. It did a remarkable job of bringing me back to an intermediate level in a year and a half of practice, an hour and a half every day. A highlight was recording myself on a USB stick and replaying it for my late mother shortly before she passed away. For these reasons, I have a sentimental attachment to my Yamaha digital and will never part with it.

I now only play it occasionally, for its variety of instruments and accompaniment options, but usually (over 95% of the time) play my Kawai grand. It is relatively inexpensive, like your Roland FP30, though not quite as portable. So it is no great sacrifice to keep it as a second piano, in case I downsize from my large house and need a "quiet practice" option. It also has a much lighter key action than the Kawai grand, something that may become useful as I age.

I suspect that, like me, you will play your Kawai grand almost all the time. Any acoustic grand offers better control over dynamics and a more enveloping sound than a digital, and the RX-3 is a wonderful instrument! Since you will still have a good digital in your Roland FP30, I'd advise you to sell the Yamaha CLP-785 while the market for it is unusually tight.
All the best,
Lotus
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I have a electronic keyboard for silent practice, as others here have noted. Since I practice early in the morning when everyone else is sleeping, it is pretty much the only option. If noise is not an issue for you, then you may not need to keep your digital. Since I got a hybrid, I no longer play the digital. I got the hybrid so I would be practicing on an action that was closer to my acoustic. Now the kids use the digital sometimes for their practice. Although my MP11SE digital is pretty heavy, it is still portable so it gives me that option too.


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Last year I bought a Yamana N2 to go along with my grand.

As many others have said, it's been great on several dimensions:
- Not disturbing others with my practicing. Gone are the days when others might have been annoyed with technical exercises or repetition of challenging passages - even if they didn't say so.
- The N2 has a very good grand action in it, so it's not limiting in that regard
- Playing with headphones or even through the speakers at a low volume helps save ear fatigue
- And...I don't think this has been brought up yet...it saves on wear and tear on my Bechstein, which was one of the primary reasons I bought it.

Now - in my experience, as good as it is, it doesn't provide the same nuance and depth of possibilities in terms of creating different shades of sound as my acoustic. I find that after playing on the N2 for a while, it takes me time to adjust back to the acoustic. I always feel a bit ham-fisted at first, and have to adjust my ears, brain and hands to be able to control the acoustic like I want to. To me, the limitations of the N2 make it easier to play, and then when I am given the full palate of possibilities on the Bechstein, I'm forced to work that much more to make of it what I want (and the effort to do so is worth it).

Even though 99% of my playing at this stage of my life is on my own instruments, it's good to be able to bounce back and forth and be forced to adjust. And I've learned that if I'm going to be performing for anyone on my grand, I'll focus my practice in the days leading up on the acoustic.

Good luck with your decision!

Steve


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