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Thank you. The way I look at it is that it will be an upgrade from my 2001 NY B regardless, which I loved as well. I also have someone who is going to prep the piano after about a month or two, who is well respected in the piano rebuilding business as well as concert prep. She told me that Hamburgs generally need about 10 hours of prep vs 50 hours for a NY Steinway on average. She said what she does is "turns a sports car into a race car". That piqued my interest to say the least!

Thanks! The wait is killing me. The Baldwin R is already getting tired and it desperately needs another tuning.

The 30% additional MSRP includes the value of the dollar against the Euro as well as customs, shipping, and I imagine higher labor. I know that Hamburg does a few extra things in production that NY doesn't do, and if they notice the pin block isn't set at the right height for example, they will take it to the beginning of the line and re-do it.

Pianos are also shipped from the Hamburg Factory to NY via air cargo, not by sea.

MSRP for a 2021 Steinway Hamburg D is around $229,000 USD, and I believe the 2021 price for a NY D is approaching 180k. I was able to save significantly on it because of my relationship with my dealer, plus I have done business with them in the past. There may not be as much room or incentives as a NY piano, but he knew I had already made up my mind, and if I wasn't going to get it through him, I'd get it elsewhere.

When we looked at Spirio R's a couple of years ago, our local Steinway dealer (SF Bay Area - East Bay) had both a NY Steinway Spirio R and the Lang Lang Model Spirio R, both Model B's. The Lang Lang Model was a Hamburg Steinway. We told the dealer that we might be interested in a Spirio R from Hamburg. Since we regularly go (went) to Europe, he said that if we wanted to go to Hamburg to pick a Spirio R out, he could arrange it to be shipped to the US. He didn't talk about the exact price, but it sounded like it would be similar to the NY Steinway Spirio R price. My wife played both and preferred the Lang Lang Model. My understanding is that Lang Lang Model is only cosmetically different from the regular model. I used to easily tell a Hamburg from a NY from a distance because the NY was black on the inside of the case, while the Hamburg showed the wood.


In the past, when my wife played some concerts (around 2000) in the Bay Area, the local rental piano company - Pro Piano - had two Hamburg Model D's that they would rent out. She tried both and chose one for her concerts. That one had many signatures in felt pens from the famous artists who had played it. She got to add her signature to the piano. Later, we found that the piano had been sold.

Thank you for sharing! I am wonder if all Lang Lang Model Spirio Rs are Hamburgs. I have read in several articles and places that as an artist, he prefers the Hamburg pianos when he plays. And I can't help but wonder where the piano with the signatures ended up. What a fun experience for her.

I have thought about visiting the showrooms in the bay area because there are 3 of them. We only have 1 in San Diego and the selections are limited. In the showroom, there is 1 Model B, maybe 2 if you are lucky.

One difference:

The NY pianos, even those made with the new rounded cheeks, do not have locks.

Another difference:

The NY pianos are still darker sounding and even as they brighten up they don't sound like Hamburgs.

The NY pianos still have the accelerated action configuration. The actual parts are as similar as to be identical but it's something to do with the key weighting.

The NY piano soundboard is slightly different but I also know that if you put Hamburg-type hammers on an NY piano it starts to sound remarkably like a Hamburg.

*MOST* Important is the technician. If you get a good NY plus a good technician it has potential to be an incredible piano, of course. Pianos at that level need to be worked on extensively to bring out the best in them. Fresh from the factory they're still quite raw and that's true for any brand.

"Pianos at that level need to be worked on extensively to bring out the best in them..."

Question relative to that - referencing your comment above, what typically has to be focused on / worked on in these instances? Knowing this will be helpful to me.

Thanks.

Pianos of that level have price tag that is supposed to include extensive factory/dealer preparation to bring out the best out of them.
IMHO, only additional voicing and tuning are steps that should be expected to be done after the sale. And action adjustments if it does not completely match the owner taste.

Yes you're right, but also a piano takes time to develop. A new piano is not the same as one that has been pampered by a good technician in a concert fleet for five years. More than one concert technician has told me that the pianos they look after are at their most raw when they're new, and develop to their full potential about three to five years in.

It's to do with voicing, tuning, regulation, servicing, making sure the strings are all level on the bridge etc. We say 'only voicing' like it's not a crucial and extremely difficult thing to get right. Now, for sure, it's not like replacing a soundboard or re-stringing a piano, or replacing a set of hammers, etc, but voicing new hammers so that they bring out the best or preferred characteristics in a piano is an extremely difficult task. The piano technician has to get a feel for whether these hammers want to go mellow or bright, and which direction to take them in and by how much.

More than once I've heard of people going to select a piano, and I'm talking about Hamburg Steinways in London, or other top level makes, and they don't really find anything that they like and it's *not* because the pianos aren't good, it's to do with all the other stuff. It's also to do with the room the piano is in.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying a new piano, in fact I'd positively encourage it if it's in your budget, but make sure you talk with a piano technician who really knows what they're doing. This is, after all, a big purchase and it's one that is surprisingly difficult to get right.

You might not find a piano that's exactly where you want it in terms of touch and tone, but a good technician will be able to help you find one that is close and can more easily be brought to your preference. See what I mean? If you like a bright piano there's no point in getting something that has been prepped for Lieder recitals, because it could take as much as a new set of hammers to change the character of the instrument. If you want something that's right for Lieder or cello recitals, you probably don't want a D that is voiced for Prokofiev 3. See what I mean?

This is very insightful. I met with a Steinway dealer yesterday. Based on where I live and the current inventory here, he said that buyers most likely have to pianos unseen (NY or hamburg) and they are voiced, tuned, regulated when they arrive at the showroom to the buyer's liking and then again adjusted at the buyers home. But so much of the color comes from the soundboard. It seems scary to make a large purchase, sight unseen.

Did you go try the Hamburg Steinways for sale in CA? You might not need to buy ‘sight unseen’.

I thought of your post yesterday morning...... I visited a showroom and there was a Lang Lang Spirio model B in a beautiful brown toned wood. So I had a chance to play it. And I also played a NY B. Take away was - they just sound different. I even had my friend/teacher with me (he is from Poland and was a concert pianist there) and he played some very dramatic pieces to explore the color differences. In my scenario, the Hamburg notes had more color surrounding each note. All amazing pianos. Just different. I noticed the response was more sensitive on the Hamburg as well, but I don't know if that is due to its adjustments or age. Could be so many factors. Another interesting note, the dealer told us that the Lang Lang piano didn't entirely have Renner action parts (which Hamburgs supposedly have had all Renner action only for a long, long time) but that the Steinways in next 3-5 years will be moving toward using both Renner action and action from Steinway, creating a hybrid of both actions, vs. just one or the other.

For what it is worth, they had a NY D in their recital room and my teacher said it sounded and felt just like the pianos he played in Europe. It also had the shiny ebony and the big wheels to support the legs - very much a Hamburg look. So perhaps all the discussions of how the two makes are closer to each other now than ever before is becoming more obvious to those that know both pianos.

Good suggestion. Steinway has dealers up and down the west coast. They don't store new Hamburg models in any of the showrooms unless it is a special Lang Lang model. There are instances of restored Hamburg pianos that come up every now and then. But definitely not a common find at all in the area I am in.

In Los Angeles
https://davidandersenpianos.com/product/hamburg_steinway_b_6_10_grandpiano_los_angeles/

In Stanton
http://www.kimspiano.com/MSProductD...p;lang=&itemoptioncustom=&theme=

In Tustin
http://www.kimspiano.com/MSProductD...p;lang=&itemoptioncustom=&theme=

http://www.kimspiano.com/MSProductD...p;lang=&itemoptioncustom=&theme=

There may be more - but that’s all I will look for

Thank you so much for your help and for taking the time to post. Much appreciated!

Don't rule out rebuilds. I have a D that was originally manufactured in NY in the '70s, but completely rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017, including action parts that are entirely Hamburg.

Even though I've never been a Steinway fan, per se, I've never played a better piano -- though a Hamburg D that they have at Music Institute of Chicago's Nichols Hall impressed me just as much in the brief time I had to play it a couple of years ago.

I am surprised to learn that you'd have to buy a new Steinway unseen. Certainly if you are a discerning buyer (assuming everyone on Piano World is) and you cannot find a larger model (B and above) that suits your need, given the COVID situation factory selection appears challenging. On the other hand before the pandemic whenever I went to our local Steinway Gallery they almost always had more than 5 model B there. Of course they are all NY made.

As much as some people would like bash on fit and finish of NY Steinways, my 2 cents are don't sign them off categorically, for the merit of musical instruments, just because they are NY made. I actually spent a lot of time on my NY A, probably about the same as on my Hamburg B. It almost sort of comes down to the preference of that particular moment

Also as ClssLib mentioned, don't rule out rebuilds.

Thank you so much for your note - yes the Steinway inventory is really, really low at the moment. In San Diego.., there was one model B on the floor a month ago. We contact them regularly but nothing new has come in and they don't when. That is when the vendor there told us to place an order if we are interested and have it regulated on site at the showroom and then again at home....So it is regulated to the client's wishes immediately instead of generically regulated for sale at the showroom. Not sure what to do next. Might just have to wait longer for more pianos to arrive, or travel to a larger city. NY Steinways are amazing. Honestly what a gift if would be to have one!