2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
83 members (AcousticAndre, Cinek, Ben T., Boboulus, camperbc, anotherscott, chopin_r_us, Alex Hutor, ambrozy, 18 invisible), 1,586 guests, and 821 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 96
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 96
For me it’s night and day with external speakers. I use Genelec 8020D. Look back up in this thread, I’ve given some info on some ways you can use EQ to improve the speakers.

I’m very happy with FP90X. I wanted a console DP and went with FP90X, homemade console, external speakers. Cheaper than the console dps I was looking at, and better speakers too. Great action, built in audio interface appreciated.


Adult beginner. Roland DP. Get your personal pianist emojis: Emoji Me App
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 128
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by James44
.
pretty much everything below middle c sounds muddy as if the piano is under water
hmmm....
i can't confirm that.
yes, the speakers can indeed produce some decent bass but they don't sound muddy at all.
at least not in my FP-90X
maybe there is something wrong with your piano?

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
Maybe but others have said the same thing on here so I am not so sure. All I know is when I put the headphones on the difference is huge and I enjoy playing.

In fact after having another go last night I’d say it’s a certain area rather than everything below middle c. It’s more like the ten notes or so to the left of middle c. The lower notes after that sound ok. I’ve done factory reset so it’s not that anything has been messed with.

Maybe I need to use piano designer and change those individual keys? If I do that and find a setting that works for me can I save it so it’s there when I switch it back on?

I still feel like some good external speakers might solve the issue.

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 128
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 128
Very unlikely that this will solve the problem but have to tried to put the piano to another place?
Mabybe there are some acoustic issues at its actual location..

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
I’ve tried pulling it back from the wall but haven’t tried it in the middle of a room yet. Will try that later.

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
On another note, can anyone recommend a pair of speakers that use a headphone jack as the Roland Go Keys only has the headphone jack for speaker output?

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,000
S
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,000
Originally Posted by James44
On another note, can anyone recommend a pair of speakers that use a headphone jack as the Roland Go Keys only has the headphone jack for speaker output?
Just get the right cable. One example, and this may not be right for your specific situation is here.

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 530
_
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
_
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 530
Originally Posted by James44
I bought the 90x a few months ago and have barely played it because it sounded rubbish. I kept meaning to go back to it and tweak the settings until I got a piano sound that I am happy with but no matter what I try it never sounds great. I have more fun playing on my two keyboards (Roland GO Keys and Casio CTX-5000) than on the much more expensive 90x. frown

The main problem is that pretty much everything below middle c sounds muddy as if the piano is under water. With headphones it’s much better so I’m hoping it’s just that the internal speakers are rubbish?

I've also noticed that the built-in speakers in the FP90 don't sound good compared to my old Sennheiser HD545 ref headphones. But a couple of similarly-priced IEMs don't sound great either.
My old hifi bookshelf Monitor Audio speakers with a Marantz amp sound better than the built-in, but not as good as the HD545.

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 299
P
Purdy Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 299
Quote
Maybe I need to use piano designer and change those individual keys? If I do that and find a setting that works for me can I save it so it’s there when I switch it back on?

I still feel like some good external speakers might solve the issue.

You can change the volume, tuning, and color of individual keys and save them for when you switch back on,

You might try using equalization. You can set the center frequency of each of the sliders.

You might try turning the hammer noise and key off noise.

Opening the lid, will make things brighter.

The resonances, sympathetic and cabinet as well as the ambience tend to muddy sound and you might turn them down.

Your room can have an impact on your listening. Good suggestion to try different spots.

There are sound ports in the back so having against a wall will influence the sound.


Many people do enjoy external speakers.


FP-90x, PX-330
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
So, I just tried with some basic Bose computer speakers…..MUCH better!

So now I just need to get a decent pair of active speakers I think, right? 🤔

@Purdy, thanks. I had tried messing about with all of those things before and did have some success but it still just never felt right. Now even with these standard Bose speakers the muffled sounds are gone and the bass notes sound much nicer.

Last edited by James44; 09/08/21 10:01 AM.
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 530
_
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
_
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 530
Originally Posted by James44
So, I just tried with some basic Bose computer speakers…..MUCH better!

So now I just need to get a decent pair of active speakers I think, right? 🤔

I'm afraid it is very much a hit-or-miss thing. Best to go to a store that sells both Roland DPs and speakers and let you try them together, if you have any such around, let them earn their 20%-or-so commission. Otherwise, place your bet on some active studio monitors that get enough recommendations, and order from an online store that accepts returns.
Speakers sold as "PA" are generally more optimised for max volume per watt and per kg than for best sound quality, but there is no guarantee that hi-end hifi "studio monitors" are sure to sound better.

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 29
Thanks.

I am looking at the krk Rokit 5 G4 studio monitors…..do I connect the speakers directly to the piano or do I have to use an audio interface? What is the difference? 🤔

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 530
_
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
_
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 530
Originally Posted by James44
I am looking at the krk Rokit 5 G4 studio monitors…..do I connect the speakers directly to the piano or do I have to use an audio interface? What is the difference? 🤔

You connect active speakers directly with a suitable audio cable (from line-out). An audio interface is used with a computer, to connect to the keyboard audio line-out (perhaps also midi); but the FP90X has one built in so you can connect digital audio to a computer using just a USB cable.

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 14
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 14
ROLAND FP90 (Full) tone list
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I am very happy with my 2 years old ROLAND FP90.
Nevertheless, it surprises me that in the manual there is no a list with all the sounds (there is a list, but some 260 sounds are not included). So, I´ve taken the pain of creating it by myself. It is even more surprising taking into account that some of these sounds are actually quite good and usable.

Pdf Download link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z5CVVKdq9f-DQ1qcXZfwyIeEvEtlzjng/view?usp=sharing

On the other hand, there is neither a list of all the percussion instruments for each note (in the "Drum Sets" tones). So, do you know if there is any generic list or so with this info. It would be good to have this info for knowing a bit better what we are doing (and not going only by ear or previous knowledge).

Many thanks.

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 14
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by colicofrenetico
On the other hand, there is neither a list of all the percussion instruments for each note (in the "Drum Sets" tones). So, do you know if there is any generic list or so with this info. It would be good to have this info for knowing a bit better what we are doing (and not going only by ear or previous knowledge).

I think I have answered myself, for this seems to match the GM2 PERCUSSION MAP convention.
http://odasan.s48.xrea.com/dtm/gm2drum.html

Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 53
W
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Purdy
It’s interesting because a lot of the criticism of the supernatural and I suppose pure acoustic modeling seems to stem around the sound being too metallic or I suppose too bright.

The concert brilliant snd stage bright are to my ears very bright pianos. I think more suited to cutting through in a group then playing alone.

I agree that you should give your ears a chance to adjust.

You can only expect so much out of the internal speakers as I think as with all speakers that size, they just don’t sufficiently produce low frequencies.

Real pianos have a lot of.vibration in the bass and the small speakers just don’t move enough air and there is no real resonance chamber.

And it is interesting that you feel the bass is muddy because you can tell that Roland went through a lot of effort to model the resonance and sympathetic vibrations that occur on acoustic pianos, And the sustain on notes is pretty cool on how long it can last.

Just goes to show how subjective sound is.

This is a very good point.

Please consider that “bright” does not mandatorily equate with “metallic”.

A S&S model D is “bright” (even when played softly) but it is far from “metallic”. You really need to push it at ffff to elicit some “metallic” sound out of it. It has what I would call a clear, “liquid” sound.

By converse, supernatural engine interpret the “bright” as “metallic”; indeed in this mid-top range instruments a big work has been done to avoid the typical “spike” you hear, for example, in the FA 08 concert piano when transitioning to mf to f or ff… but still the sound personality is “metal” and not “water”.

At least, no trace of “glass”, like for example in pianoteq.

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 299
P
Purdy Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 299
Quote
Please consider that “bright” does not mandatorily equate with “metallic”.

Yes but now you get into subjective assessments of sound and words without an objective measure.

And in the end it is a piece of metal that is vibrating in a piano.


FP-90x, PX-330
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 53
W
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Purdy
Quote
Please consider that “bright” does not mandatorily equate with “metallic”.

Yes but now you get into subjective assessments of sound and words without an objective measure.

And in the end it is a piece of metal that is vibrating in a piano.

Not exactly: there is an harmonic steel string, struck by ha wooden/felt hammer, connected to a cast iron harp, upon a wooden soundboard inside a wooden cabinet.

The sound hitting our ears is a combination of all these waveforms.

And maybe I am wrong, but a “metallic” sound is not something subjective. :-)

Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 299
P
Purdy Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 299
Quote
Not exactly: there is an harmonic steel string, struck by ha wooden/felt hammer, connected to a cast iron harp, upon a wooden soundboard inside a wooden cabinet.

Metal strings and metal frame. I don’t think the felt vibrates and wood.

But the predominate sound is metal vibrating.

When you describe a piano as sounding like water or glass breaking then yes, metallic is subjective.


FP-90x, PX-330
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 53
W
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Purdy
Quote
Not exactly: there is an harmonic steel string, struck by ha wooden/felt hammer, connected to a cast iron harp, upon a wooden soundboard inside a wooden cabinet.

Metal strings and metal frame. I don’t think the felt vibrates and wood.

But the predominate sound is metal vibrating.

When you describe a piano as sounding like water or glass breaking then yes, metallic is subjective.

I see your point. While I still believe that the overall sound of an acoustic piano is much more than the mere result of a metal string vibration, I acknowledge that some definitions have a “metaphorical-analogic” aspect. For example, “bright” is a metaphor if referred to a sound.

While I agree with this, please allow me to highlight that a metaphor is not a purely subjective thing, as it is able to elicit consistent understanding across a group of people.

Therefore, to say that a piano sound is “metallic” and another has a “glassy sound” is not a subjective statement, but an objective one expressed by the mean of metaphor.

Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
Our Fall 2021 Free Newsletter is Out , see it here!
---------------------
Selling my Hammond & Leslie!
---------------------
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Away for 2 weeks
by Cutec - 10/24/21 05:29 PM
Notation Question (Pathetique Sonata 2nd Movement)
by DaveInMichigan - 10/24/21 03:18 PM
The Haunting at ParSem!
by Piano World - 10/24/21 02:27 PM
Historical pianos / Chris Maene
by Ppianissimo - 10/24/21 02:12 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics209,724
Posts3,141,767
Members103,102
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5