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Is there software / app requirement to run on the PC so that it knows the audio coming in from DP on one host port needs to be simply sent - untouched - out the second host port? .....

Yes with digital audio workstation DAW you can specify the inputs and outputs. The software can act as a mixer.


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Originally Posted by Purdy
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Is there software / app requirement to run on the PC so that it knows the audio coming in from DP on one host port needs to be simply sent - untouched - out the second host port? .....

Yes with digital audio workstation DAW you can specify the inputs and outputs. The software can act as a mixer.

Yes BUT... Everytime you add an element in the path of digital signals, you add latency. Cannot avoid that. Small latency if only repacking is necessary, large latency if processing is involved. Adding elements in an analog path has minimal time consequences (if any)...

So, the golden rule is: one digital station is better than two, two are better than three, and so on...

I believe that this discussion devolved into tech without purpose: features not called for that do not add to the current solutions. My 2 cents...

Last edited by vagfilm; 09/18/21 04:32 AM.
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I'm confused about the purpose.
Originally Posted by vagfilm
I believe that this discussion devolved into tech without purpose: features not called for that do not add to the current solutions.
Underlying all this tech there must be a need that someone wants fulfilled. But I don't know what need that is.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'm confused about the purpose.
Originally Posted by vagfilm
I believe that this discussion devolved into tech without purpose: features not called for that do not add to the current solutions.
Underlying all this tech there must be a need that someone wants fulfilled. But I don't know what need that is.

The need to sell digital pianos - at a price lower than the competiton.


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Originally Posted by drewr
Is there software / app requirement to run on the PC so that it knows the audio coming in from DP on one host port needs to be simply sent - untouched - out the second host port?
Yes, something would have to route the data from attached device X to attached device Y, some kind of logical connection has to be made. AFAIK, this is how it already works. You should be able to take your digital audio out from your Yamaha, Dexibell, or other keyboard that supports that function, send it to your DAW (or other program with an appropriate function, like Gig Performer, Camelot Pro, or Cantabile), and have that audio sent back out to an external audio interface which would then connect to your analog playback system.

Originally Posted by drewr
would it be better to use, say, an iPad capable of 2 host ports?
Same idea, there are apps to do this, though to get 2 host ports on an iPad, you'd also need a USB hub, and all attached devices need to be class compliant (i.e. they'd have to use the drivers Apple already supplies as part of the OS), since there's no way to install third-party drivers on an iPad.

Originally Posted by Purdy
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There would not seem to be much market for a device to take audio from a USB output of a keyboard (from the very few keyboards that even have that capability) and convert that input to analog audio out, since every keyboard that sends audio out over USB already also has some kind of analog audio output.

It wouldn’t have to be a keyboard. It would be any device that was a usb slave that was a digital audio source.
What digital audio sources with a USB audio output don't have their own analog audio outs, just like the keyboards do?

Originally Posted by Purdy
And no, a mixer will not solve my very niche problem which really should be fixed by Roland in the DP itself.
Well, a mixer could certainly take your Roland's audio out and send it out to multiple devices each with their own volume levels (i.e. main outs, aux/monitor outs, headphone out)... Is the problem that you are trying to raise/lower the volume of the internal speakers without affecting the volume going to some external amplification?

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A lot of digital audio sources have used s pdif to get data to amps/dacs.

Presumably the dacs in those amps are better. At least that is the marketing,

A lot of the amps most? Take an analog input and turn it into digital and then back to analog.

My tv has s pdif output and can send digital audio back through hdmi.

There are keyboards that have spdif outs.

I guess one could record the keyboard digitally snd play it back through their system of choice to see if it improves on what they could get out through the analog lineouts or headphone jacks.

Again it seems to me that people argue and advocate for things that have even less impact like the coloration from dacs.

I have a set of digital drums. It is common for mixers to have digital audio out. There’s a variety of dj panels and sequencer machines. Drum machines, digital saxophones.

All have the same issue getting the digital audio out to an amp. And usb seems to be the most prevalent method.

And again, class compliant audio interfaces are quite common now, thank you iPad.

I would argue that there is a niche for some enterprising audio interface company to provide a usb master capability to connect with these instruments.

And yes, in my experience you can always find reasons not to do something.


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Is the problem that you are trying to raise/lower the volume of the internal speakers without affecting the volume going to some external amplification?

I’m trying to get the maximum signal out of the lineouts without blasting my ear drums out from the internal speakers which I want as my monitors.

Because the volumes are not separate on the keyboard.

A mixer will not solve that.

I don’t know why Roland doesn’t treat the line out volume control like the usb audio out volume control.


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Originally Posted by Purdy
Quote
Is there software / app requirement to run on the PC so that it knows the audio coming in from DP on one host port needs to be simply sent - untouched - out the second host port? .....

Yes with digital audio workstation DAW you can specify the inputs and outputs. The software can act as a mixer.

From having read presale info on Focusrite and Presonus AIs, there is good chance the included software bundle will provide a basic DAW software that i hope to find suitable for my purposes.

Originally Posted by vagfilm
Originally Posted by Purdy
Quote
Is there software / app requirement to run on the PC so that it knows the audio coming in from DP on one host port needs to be simply sent - untouched - out the second host port? .....

Yes with digital audio workstation DAW you can specify the inputs and outputs. The software can act as a mixer.



Yes BUT... Everytime you add an element in the path of digital signals, you add latency. Cannot avoid that. Small latency if only repacking is necessary, large latency if processing is involved. Adding elements in an analog path has minimal time consequences (if any)...

So, the golden rule is: one digital station is better than two, two are better than three, and so on...

I believe that this discussion devolved into tech without purpose: features not called for that do not add to the current solutions. My 2 cents...

For an AI’ing noob wannabe, nice-to get this confirmation, thank you! ... and yes, i expect adding 3 circuits between source DP and analog audio output may introduce some annoyances/latency/noise/niggles 😐


Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'm confused about the purpose.
Originally Posted by vagfilm
I believe that this discussion devolved into tech without purpose: features not called for that do not add to the current solutions.
Underlying all this tech there must be a need that someone wants fulfilled. But I don't know what need that is.
Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by drewr
Is there software / app requirement to run on the PC so that it knows the audio coming in from DP on one host port needs to be simply sent - untouched - out the second host port?


Yes, something would have to route the data from attached device X to attached device Y, some kind of logical connection has to be made. AFAIK, this is how it already works. You should be able to take your digital audio out from your Yamaha, Dexibell, or other keyboard that supports that function, send it to your DAW (or other program with an appropriate function, like Gig Performer, Camelot Pro, or Cantabile), and have that audio sent back out to an external audio interface which would then connect to your analog playback system.

Originally Posted by drewr
would it be better to use, say, an iPad capable of 2 host ports?
Same idea, there are apps to do this, though to get 2 host ports on an iPad, you'd also need a USB hub, and all attached devices need to be class compliant (i.e. they'd have to use the drivers Apple already supplies as part of the OS), since there's no way to install third-party drivers on an iPad.

Originally Posted by Purdy
Quote
There would not seem to be much market for a device to take audio from a USB output of a keyboard (from the very few keyboards that even have that capability) and convert that input to analog audio out, since every keyboard that sends audio out over USB already also has some kind of analog audio output.



It wouldn’t have to be a keyboard. It would be any device that was a usb slave that was a digital audio source.
What digital audio sources with a USB audio output don't have their own analog audio outs, just like the keyboards do?

Originally Posted by Purdy
And no, a mixer will not solve my very niche problem which really should be fixed by Roland in the DP itself.
Well, a mixer could certainly take your Roland's audio out and send it out to multiple devices each with their own volume levels (i.e. main outs, aux/monitor outs, headphone out)... Is the problem that you are trying to raise/lower the volume of the internal speakers without affecting the volume going to some external amplification?

If you are discussing others’ purposes, fine by me, let that roll to its own conclusion, otherwise i think mine are now stated as clearly as i know how and mostly resolved, on virtual paper... at least until i reach the future moment with new gear in hand and hooking it all up .... slam dunk, right ? 😉

Should i get there, will likely try the old laptop PC method first but since a new iPad purchase is planned to be first new gear regardless of any of these other projects coming to fruition, i expect a suitable, multi-port docking station “hub” to be a definite accessory added to an new iPad with “thunderbolt” connectivity.


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For an AI’ing noob wannabe, nice-to get this confirmation, thank you! ... and yes, i expect adding 3 circuits between source DP and analog audio output may introduce some annoyances/latency/noise/niggles 😐

What you are proposing is really not much different than what people who are using midi to drive external virtual instruments are doing.

Apparently a lot of people like using those.


Let us know how it turns out for you.


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Originally Posted by drewr
From having read presale info on Focusrite and Presonus AIs, there is good chance the included software bundle will provide a basic DAW software that i hope to find suitable for my purposes.
Focusrite audio interfaces have for a long time come with Ableton Live Lite included, which is pretty good. Don't think that has changed. They've also used to come with Pro Tools First (think it's called) but it's a crippled version of the full Pro Tools, almost useless to me at least.

Pretty sure Presonus interfaces still come with Studio One. I don't know anything about that one (no pun intended). Actually, I don't use Ableton Live Lite much either, mostly Reaper, since I find it easier to work with (hard enough, still!).


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Originally Posted by Purdy
A lot of digital audio sources have used s pdif to get data to amps/dacs.
But that wasn't my question. I asked, "What digital audio sources with a USB audio output don't have their own analog audio outs, just like the keyboards do?" Do any of the audio sources you mention have USB Audio Out? If not, the existence of the device you're looking for would not be of any use to them.

Originally Posted by Purdy
I’m trying to get the maximum signal out of the lineouts without blasting my ear drums out from the internal speakers which I want as my monitors.

Because the volumes are not separate on the keyboard.
This looks possibly easily and cheaply solvable. Making a speaker quieter is a lot easier than making it louder. ;-) How about cutting some pieces of felt (or old towel, blanket, whatever) and placing them over the speakers? If that doesn't make it sufficiently less ear drum blasting, stack two or three pieces. It may not be elegant, but it may solve your immediate problem, without hoping for an item that doesn't exist!

Originally Posted by Purdy
I don’t know why Roland doesn’t treat the line out volume control like the usb audio out volume control.
The USB audio out would be placed before the DAC. The volume control sounds like an analog control on the post-DAC signal. The signal to the Line Out and to the input of the speaker amplifier is presumably tapped off the same place. Yes, it would be possible to put an in-line volume control on the line to the speaker amp which would leave the line outs always at full volume, but I've never seen a board work that way. Imagine being at a gig, and not being able to turn your volume up or down without walking over to your amp (or asking for a different level from the house). You could get around that by putting a volume pedal on the output of your board (or using an expression pedal, if your board supports that, which I don't think your does). Or if you have your own mixer nearby, as you might if you're using multiple keyboards. But seriously, do you think people want boards without volume controls that affect the sound coming out of the main line outputs? Maybe what you're actually looking for is a board with separate volume controls for the speakers and the line outs?

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