2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
79 members (AlphaTerminus, Alex Hutor, Andrew E., BarbaraRose, apianostudent, 17 invisible), 1,476 guests, and 714 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 108
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 108
hilarious smile

Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 453
V
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by Tozen
Why do you ask?

Hi Tozen: with JoeT the correct question is not "why do you ask?", but why do you answer... 😊

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,267
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,267
Some heated discussion here…

With the disclaimer I’m a (slightly advanced) amateur and largely self-taught pianist, my answer to thread title goes like this:

“Is practicing on a lower-end digital piano good?”

Let’s say it’s not bad. But not good either. IMO.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,430
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,430
Originally Posted by Tozen
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Tozen
I've been playing about 3 years now and started on a P-45.

Did you try Liszt Etudes back then?

Obviously not. I think I was tackling "Mary Had a Little Lamb" and such back then. wink Why do you ask?

There's one or two nursery rhymes Mozart did. Try them instead!


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 748
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 748
Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by Tozen
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Tozen
I've been playing about 3 years now and started on a P-45.

Did you try Liszt Etudes back then?

Obviously not. I think I was tackling "Mary Had a Little Lamb" and such back then. wink Why do you ask?

There's one or two nursery rhymes Mozart did. Try them instead!

There are fine pianists who are good at turning old children’s dittys into music easily appreciated by people of all ages .....



- Kawai MP7 and LSR308 monitors
- Roland HP-508
- DT770 Pro-80 and MDR-7506 phones
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 748
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 748


- Kawai MP7 and LSR308 monitors
- Roland HP-508
- DT770 Pro-80 and MDR-7506 phones
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,727
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,727
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yes, it’s called the Yamaha P-515! grin

Are you, like Gombessa, going to tell me that my immortally beloved P-515 does not have a ‘true’ action?

Wait, how did I get pulled into this conversation?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,563
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,563
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yes, it’s called the Yamaha P-515! grin

Are you, like Gombessa, going to tell me that my immortally beloved P-515 does not have a ‘true’ action?

Doesn’t the P515 action « truly » opposes an inertia thanks to the hammer below the key and « truly » sends a note velocity ? We can’t deny this trueness.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 09/16/21 04:34 PM.

http://www.sinerj.org/
http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/
Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 6
T
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
T
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Tupac
I said it MIMICKS the action of a grand piano.

An upright piano action mimics the action of a grand piano. Not the newest one, but an older single escapement model. Still fine for playing any repertoire except the latest and most difficult.

A digital piano doesn't mimic any piano action, not even one of 1699. In fact the piano action is simply missing in a digital piano. There is just a key attached to a hammer weight through some plastic-joint. It mimics a grand piano action as much as organ action, harpsichord action or clavichord action mimics a grand piano action.

Not even hybrid digital pianos mimic piano actions. They just have real piano actions installed in their full original configuration minus the felt that hit the strings.

Quote
It will be physically impossible to play pieces that require fast single key repetition on an upright. It will be possible on a CA99.

Fast single key repetition is also possible on a Casiotone CT-S1 or IBM Model M. Neither "mimic" a grand piano action:

[Linked Image]
"A digital piano doesn't mimic any piano action" Yes they do, that's the entire point. That's why Kawai named their action "Grand Feel" instead of "Plastic Folded Action Feel". You're arguing about backing technology, I'm arguing about the user experience. Are you going to tell me that an e-reader does not mimic real books in their reading experience? "But it doesn't even use real paper!! And it's not made with trees!!"

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yes, digital piano makers like to claim that their instruments compare favorably with the finest Continental pianos found in the famous salons of Vienna.

Lovely marketing. Lovely bullcrud. They can name it Grand Feel. But such trade names are fictitious and meaningless.

The real world is different. But ... if you insist that a folded digital piano action mimics a grand action, then I might claim that my chocolate chip cookie mimics a Porsche roadster. smile

Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 53
W
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 53
When I was a kid my family had no money to buy (or rent) a piano.

So I drafted a keyboard on a piece of cardboard and I started to practice singing the notes while I was pressing the corresponding key.

Believe me or not, I learnt the first two or three Beyer exercises.

I assume that a low end digital piano is better than a piece of cardboard…

Last edited by WTF Bach; 09/16/21 08:03 PM.
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 43
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by maucycy
Originally Posted by Chris James
I find some of the views expressed in this thread a bit strange.

I play some quite advanced pieces on my FP10, (I have a recording of one of them in the members recording area on this forum at the moment) and as long as I use Pianoteq to provide the sound I find the results rather pleasing. As an amateur I am not trying to emulate concert pianists here, I'm just playing for my own enjoyment. And enjoy it I do...

Sure, of course I would prefer to play on an acoustic grand (or even an upright), but to suggest that digital pianos are not suitable for practicing classical pieces is just plain wrong in my view.

You might as well argue that playing on upright pianos is a waste of time because they do not have a proper grand piano action.


Sorry but your c-minor nocturne is far from what I can call "pleasing" and is both technically and musically far above your playing level (too hard). I really dont know why all amateurs strive to play difficult things bad instead of playing simple things well?
Do you know what rubato means?


I think we'd all very much like to hear your rendition of the Chopin piece now. Your assertion that the piece is "far above me" is pretty crass (crude), but since I am an amateur I freely admit that there are doubtless better renditions out there. Of course I have only been regularly playing (for the first time in 20 years) for 10 months, so I expect I shall improve quite quickly over the next 10.
Where is your rendition of this piece, so we can set the "mark" towards which I should aim?

Last edited by Chris James; 09/16/21 09:06 PM.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,430
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,430
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, digital piano makers like to claim that their instruments compare favorably with the finest Continental pianos found in the famous salons of Vienna.

Lovely marketing. Lovely bullcrud. They can name it Grand Feel. But such trade names are fictitious and meaningless.

The real world is different. But ... if you insist that a folded digital piano action mimics a grand action, then I might claim that my chocolate chip cookie mimics a Porsche roadster. smile

But they've been assidiously attempting to update the grand piano, into something with more clarity and less interference from resonances.
No doubt they've been looking at streamlining the action, too. Getting rid of springs and stuff.
Secretly, they are dead jealous of digitals and would just love to electronify the action of a grand. It'd be easy.
What's stopping them?
People who think the world is flat.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,055
C
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 3,055
So, soon acoustic pianos will work on "Play by wire" with sensors on the keys and actuators on the hammers?

Or it could be wireless, so you can have the grand in the middle of the room and take the keyboard with you to the sofa.

"Play by wire(less)" would also enable the development of player assisting technologies like auto-correction.

As for the actual topic: So, low-end digital pianos are meant for low-end piano music? (And low-end players?)

Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 44
M
Full Member
Online Content
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by Chris James
I think we'd all very much like to hear your rendition of the Chopin piece now. Your assertion that the piece is "far above me" is pretty crass (crude), but since I am an amateur I freely admit that there are doubtless better renditions out there. Of course I have only been regularly playing (for the first time in 20 years) for 10 months, so I expect I shall improve quite quickly over the next 10.
Where is your rendition of this piece, so we can set the "mark" towards which I should aim?

I will be more than happy to write detailed analysis why this is piece is too hard for you.
As I said - noone is expecting you (or any other amateur pianist) to play it on a uber-virtuoso level. However, this piece is too difficult for you, and as long as you will not be able to admit it before yourself and will just rebounce the ball, my (or anyone other help) will be pointless.
Eventually it's your decision whether you want to be a good pianist or not. By good I mean playing the pieces that are within your abilities (technically and musically), and that Nocturne is making you a lot of pain, which is just visually visible.

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 199
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 199
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
As for the actual topic: So, low-end digital pianos are meant for low-end piano music? (And low-end players?)

If high-end piano music is classical music and low end music is song, well some argue that digital piano are not made for high-end music but for low end music. There is a teacher saying that, so is opinion is worth listening.
There is another teacher (well known in England) that has, in his teacher room, a bechstein grand but also a Casio gp-310. I think he is arguing that the digital is good help for practicing.
Who is right who is wrong? I think neither. Because that are opinions, and depends of circumstances of a lot of variables..
A digital is not an acoustic piano, it is not the same artefact. But at which level are they close. What to consider?
Making loud noise of ones own opinion against the opinion of others, just make no-sense (again). But teach a lot about the psiche of who is shooting loud.
Non-sense, self satisfaction, arrogance, sometimes agresivity, mockery..... Opinions for facts...
Typing in this forum won't increase my piano skills, and will take my time away. So yours.

Cheers


Adult Beginner - Kawai ES920 - Pianoteq Standard -
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,554
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,554
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
As for the actual topic: So, low-end digital pianos are meant for low-end piano music? (And low-end players?)

The mean truth is: They are meant to sell.

To sell at a price bracket, where you cannot legitimately create a musical instrument, that faithfully reproduces a piano. They are money-grabs in that sense. Money-grabs usually work, when people have no clue: no clue about tools they purchase, no clue about repertoire and no clue about their own abilities. Proof: this thread.

Sadly that's all that is to it actually. The lowest tier (which is colloquially nicknamed "shitbox" in the automotive industry) saw loads of dispensable models released during the last decade, where just one would have sufficed.

However such a race to the bottom usually also marks the end of a boom cycle. The last upright piano boom cycle also saw lots of crap flooding the market in the end of it, before people stopped buying them and lots of manufacturers going broke as a result.


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,554
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,554
Originally Posted by Chris James
Of course I have only been regularly playing (for the first time in 20 years) for 10 months, so I expect I shall improve quite quickly over the next 10.

For many people on this forum Chopin's nocturnes are beyond their skill level, even when they are playing piano for several years with the help of a piano teacher trained for classical piano. That should tell you something.

Please have a look at the ABRSM and RCM syllabus to assess which pieces are appropriate for beginners at a certain level. Each level roughly equates to a year of professional piano lessons.


Yamaha P-515
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 43
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by maucycy
Originally Posted by Chris James
I think we'd all very much like to hear your rendition of the Chopin piece now. Your assertion that the piece is "far above me" is pretty crass (crude), but since I am an amateur I freely admit that there are doubtless better renditions out there. Of course I have only been regularly playing (for the first time in 20 years) for 10 months, so I expect I shall improve quite quickly over the next 10.
Where is your rendition of this piece, so we can set the "mark" towards which I should aim?

I will be more than happy to write detailed analysis why this is piece is too hard for you.
As I said - noone is expecting you (or any other amateur pianist) to play it on a uber-virtuoso level. However, this piece is too difficult for you, and as long as you will not be able to admit it before yourself and will just rebounce the ball, my (or anyone other help) will be pointless.
Eventually it's your decision whether you want to be a good pianist or not. By good I mean playing the pieces that are within your abilities (technically and musically), and that Nocturne is making you a lot of pain, which is just visually visible.

You are a moron. A condescending moron.

I could write a detailed analysis of why that is the case, but I doubt you would have the capacity to understand it.

Either post a video of you playing this piece or take your bullshit and shove it up your ass.

Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 43
C
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 43
Well. I have more than 10 years of piano playing experience...from the age of 7 to 18....then I stopped for 25 years.

I know what my playing level is, and the Nocturnes (including 48-1) are all well within reach of my playing level (though some are clearly more challenging than others).

Last edited by Chris James; 09/17/21 06:28 AM.
Page 4 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
Selling Hammond D100 (think B3) Organ & Leslie HL722!
---------------------
Our Fall 2021 Free Newsletter is Out , see it here!
---------------------
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Baldwin L vs. Steinway A
by noyes - 10/26/21 06:08 PM
New Steinway O- Yeti Revelation Scoring Grand
by newer player - 10/26/21 01:54 PM
Difficulty Adjusting to a lighter weight piano
by CoffeeTea21 - 10/26/21 12:57 PM
Non-creaky beginner piano setup?
by cai.linn - 10/26/21 12:56 PM
Upright Dampers - thin wood backing
by jkess114 - 10/26/21 12:27 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics209,756
Posts3,142,212
Members103,122
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5