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We were recently alerted to this thread and welcome the passionate discussion- including Mr. Carr’s friendship of our brand.
We would like to contribute some nicely recorded music to this conversation. Here are two pieces that hail from Austria. Eric Himy is performing The Forgotten Walse (Valse Oubliee No. 1) and then the Sonetto del Petrarca 123 by Franz Liszt. The piano: a Hailun Grand 218 - and a good example of a well-“prepped†Hailun. The occasion: 200th Liszt Anniversary Concert @ the Landmark Center, St. Paul, MN.
Disclaimer: This video was made in collaboration with the Authorized Hailun Merchant in the Twin Cities, Wells Music. Their name appears in the video – hope that won’t bother anyone.
Just curious to know, what sort of prep work does a dealer need to do to a high end piano that takes 4 to 6 hours? Is it voicing the hammers and tuning the piano? I would have thought that all the "fettling" to get a piano sounding right would have happened at the factory - that's my simple way of thinking, being an end-user consumer. Why would a new piano be any different to a new car? The dealer doesn't spend much time on a new car other than taking off all the protective plastic and perhaps charging the battery. What work is required on a brand new piano other than to unpack and give it a tune? Its only going to out of tune in 3-6 months time anyway, as the strings will still need to settle.
The dealers mentioned that once the piano goes into the home of the customer, will there be a need to tune the piano again.
I am based in Melbourne, Australia, and I have come across a Hailun as well as Feurich piano dealer (different dealers) when I went piano shopping.
Neither the Hailun dealer nor the Feurich dealer mentioned anything about prepping the piano, other than tuning it once on their premises and then another tune at the customer's home several months later, once the piano has "acclimatised" to the new surrounds.
Both the Hailun and the Feurich piano seemed similar with the birds eye maple inlay.
Last edited by Lawrance; 09/12/2110:38 AM. Reason: Additional detail provided
Lawrance Yamaha U1SH2PEQ silent piano Yamaha HS8 studio monitors
Just curious to know, what sort of prep work does a dealer need to do to a high end piano that takes 4 to 6 hours? Is it voicing the hammers and tuning the piano? I would have thought that all the "fettling" to get a piano sounding right would have happened at the factory - that's my simple way of thinking, being an end-user consumer. Why would a new piano be any different to a new car? The dealer doesn't spend much time on a new car other than taking off all the protective plastic and perhaps charging the battery. What work is required on a brand new piano other than to unpack and give it a tune?
I'm not sure if this on point in regards to 'prepping', but my understanding, too, is that brand new pianos are prepped at the factory, but the dealer may prep used pianos to showroom standard. But my experience with receiving a new piano (a Hailun btw) is that there is some disassembly, packing, unpacking, and reassembly involved (the feet, pedals, etc.). I'd imagine for transcontinental shipping there may be more extensive disassembly and packing of the parts, the strings may even be purposedly un-tensioned.
Just curious to know, what sort of prep work does a dealer need to do to a high end piano that takes 4 to 6 hours? Is it voicing the hammers and tuning the piano? I would have thought that all the "fettling" to get a piano sounding right would have happened at the factory - that's my simple way of thinking, being an end-user consumer. Why would a new piano be any different to a new car? The dealer doesn't spend much time on a new car other than taking off all the protective plastic and perhaps charging the battery. What work is required on a brand new piano other than to unpack and give it a tune? Its only going to out of tune in 3-6 months time anyway, as the strings will still need to settle.
Hi Lawrance,
First, thank you for reawakening this thread. It was a beauty and shows the professionalism of Bose Eric, who I hope checks in here sometime soon. Second, welcome to PW. I hope you learn something and have fun. That is why I am here.
Here is the big difference between a piano and a car. A piano is made of organic parts. There is no way that more than one piano can be made from identical woods, or for that matter, identical felts or leathers either. Even within one instrument, there is often inconsistencies from note to note. These issues can also change during the distribution of a piano. It takes many weeks and an ocean voyage and a truck voyage to get pianos to many dealers. That piano will NOT be in the same shape as the day it was built, and since most manufacturers know this, this is the first place they will skimp. Now if a dealer is offering a piano that he knows will be for a novice, it is a place where they will often skimp as well, but it does not mean that technical work isn't needed for a better, more musical result.
Now, what work is commonly done to a piano that just arrives to a showroom who is known for consistency and good dealer prep? The work includes several tunings because the strings are still elastic and stretching on a new piano. The more stable an instrument, the better any other technical work can be. The rest of the work will include action regulation and voicing, but can sometimes include adjustment of felt bushings, working with the timing of dampers, etc.
Originally Posted by Lawrance
Neither the Hailun dealer nor the Feurich dealer mentioned anything about prepping the piano, other than tuning it once on their premises and then another tune at the customer's home several months later, once the piano has "acclimatised" to the new surrounds.
Then it is safe to assume they did not do additional work. It is not reasonable to assume that the pianos would not benefit from additional work.
Strange discussion. We are talking about low budget pianos, right? How come that so many people are interested in the origin of parts or the details of production? Go trying and play a Feurich or Hailun or whatever, and if you like it: fine, get one.
It´s strange that people want to know in detail which components are used in a specific piano and it´s strange as well that many manufacturer don´t want to give these information to the public.
Gregor
Dear Gregor, I have been such a person, as a first time end-user consumer I looked for information on the pianos components. I knew different technicians would prefer different pianos in the same price range, therefore I felt I could not count on their suggestions. On the other end, as a first time buyer with no previous experience, I could not completely trust my own judgment. I also learnt that the same piano could change its sound after one or two years, the same piano could change its sound depending on its location, depending on how it was prepped ... Very, very, difficult to make a choice! This is why I asked information on the quality of components.
I also had a couple of sensible replies:
1) knowing that the strings were Rosleau strings was not enough, because there are several kind of Rosleau strings: ok, I thought, why not specify which kind of Rosleau then?
2) the quality of the sound of a piano depends more on the general design than on the quality of a single component: ok, then, still the quality of the components of a piano would tell something about its overall value. For example, I learnt that a bridge can be made of different woods, the choice of more expensive bridge would tell me something about the quality of a piano.
Of course, I know the usuale comment: you should choose the piano that you like, that's it. Well, what would you say of I could choose a piano even though the rim was made from plastic?
"I tell my piano things" that I don’t have to tell everyone. Frederic Chopin (revisited)
Strange discussion. We are talking about low budget pianos, right? How come that so many people are interested in the origin of parts or the details of production? Go trying and play a Feurich or Hailun or whatever, and if you like it: fine, get one.
It´s strange that people want to know in detail which components are used in a specific piano and it´s strange as well that many manufacturer don´t want to give these information to the public.
Gregor
Dear Gregor, I have been such a person, as a first time end-user consumer I looked for information on the pianos components. I knew different technicians would prefer different pianos in the same price range, therefore I felt I could not count on their suggestions. On the other end, as a first time buyer with no previous experience, I could not completely trust my own judgment. I also learnt that the same piano could change its sound after one or two years, the same piano could change its sound depending on its location, depending on how it was prepped ... Very, very, difficult to make a choice! This is why I asked information on the quality of components.
I also had a couple of sensible replies:
1) knowing that the strings were Rosleau strings was not enough, because there are several kind of Rosleau strings: ok, I thought, why not specify which kind of Rosleau then?
2) the quality of the sound of a piano depends more on the general design than on the quality of a single component: ok, then, still the quality of the components of a piano would tell something about its overall value. For example, I learnt that a bridge can be made of different woods, the choice of more expensive bridge would tell me something about the quality of a piano.
Of course, I know the usuale comment: you should choose the piano that you like, that's it. Well, what would you say of I could choose a piano even though the rim was made from plastic?
The actual type of Rosleau wire used is unlikely to be published because it would provide neither marketing benefit or any useful information to potential customers.
Yes, having good quality components in a piano may give an indication that the manufacturer is trying and aspires to a good quality piano. Unfortunately it might also be just some 'marketable' features included as sales features in an otherwise uninspiring piano to increase its sales appeal, caveat emptor (and trust your ears).
Your piano rim is harder to answer as I like wood and generally dislike plastic. However if I had two pianos in front of me and the one with a plastic rim actually performed better than the one with wood I might have to make an uncomfortable choice.
There is quite a bit of adhesive used to bond the laminations of the rim together. The amount is determined by the thickness of the laminations, the porosity of the wood, perhaps the viscosity of the adhesive, and perhaps its cure time. When the adhesive cures, it would be fair to describe it as a polymer of one sort or another. Many, if not most, adhesives are organic. It may be fair to call the rim a wood/polymer composite. Although most wouldn't describe as such, it might also be fair to call the rim a wood/plastic composite. The adhesive adds mass and stiffness to the rim, which I believe most people would consider a good thing. We know that Kawai and WN&G have gone from a wood to a plastic composite action, which most consider a good thing, as do I. Wood is a remarkable material in many ways and is far less expensive than plastic, in general. OTOH, wood has its downsides such as its high anisotropy, its absorption of water, and its somewhat poor stability.
There is quite a bit of adhesive used to bond the laminations of the rim together. The amount is determined by the thickness of the laminations, the porosity of the wood, perhaps the viscosity of the adhesive, and perhaps its cure time. When the adhesive cures, it would be fair to describe it as a polymer of one sort or another. Many, if not most, adhesives are organic. It may be fair to call the rim a wood/polymer composite. Although most wouldn't describe as such, it might also be fair to call the rim a wood/plastic composite. The adhesive adds mass and stiffness to the rim, which I believe most people would consider a good thing. We know that Kawai and WN&G have gone from a wood to a plastic composite action, which most consider a good thing, as do I. Wood is a remarkable material in many ways and is far less expensive than plastic, in general. OTOH, wood has its downsides such as its high anisotropy, its absorption of water, and its somewhat poor stability.
Yes, it's basically what we call "carbon-fiber" as used in the car industry and many others. Usually it's graphite type fibres made into a woven carbon fabric which is encased in an epoxy resin (polymer). A piano rim is quite analogous: the wood is the carbon weave and the glue is the polymer.
I still can't get it right. Pronouncing non-English words with the proper inflection has never been my strong suit.
You must be British. They refuse to even try.
"Paella" becomes "Pay-ella"
"Don Quixote" they pronounce "Don Kwixett"
You gotta love 'em.
We're not all that bad, Furtwangler! Alas, I shall let this slip given we are loved. Back to drinking tea with the Queen I go...
You may let this slip however I .... , or maybe I won't. Given the bashing given to the Chinese here recently I suppose it's only fair if us Brits collect some too. Who shall we pick on next?
Friends: I'm not too sure about the recording. I suspect, given the age of the player, that he's not used to playing in such a resonant space, hence it comes off as rather over-pedaled. One thing is sure: this boy is wonderfully talented and beautifully taught. He is a natural pianist who loves the piano and whose every move displays his love of the instrument in general. As for the Feurich, I suspect it is slightly better than most of them (Chinese) that I've played but, as in ALL of them, full of holes. I think that the design and voicing are intended to fool the novice. At the end of the day, I find it hard to think too much about this mediocre instrument in the face of such magnificent playing. Karl
Reading earlier in this thread (pg3, probably pg2) no wonder people just die or no longer respond.
My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love. In other words a hymn. That is all, but that is enough. tre corda
I usually enjoy reading older threads -- trip down memory lane, or maybe learn something new -- and this one includes several of my favorite posters, but, man, what a snark-fest!.
But, I'll confess to a couple of chuckles.
And, on a serious note, I was glad to be reminded of how extensive and unique the Cunningham design details are.
And, on a serious note, I was glad to be reminded of how extensive and unique the Cunningham design details are.
Yes we can read that on pg2 before the snark-fest.
My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love. In other words a hymn. That is all, but that is enough. tre corda
I usually enjoy reading older threads -- trip down memory lane, or maybe learn something new -- and this one includes several of my favorite posters, but, man, what a snark-fest!. 
But, I'll confess to a couple of chuckles. 
And, on a serious note, I was glad to be reminded of how extensive and unique the Cunningham design details are.