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Originally Posted by trooplewis
The only complaint I have about the Casio is the I have been enjoying it so much as a piano that I have not taken the time to learn how to operate Rhythms, Accompaniments and the other 690 voices that it is capable of.

If I play the white keys on my Baldwin one inch from the fallboard, they feel exactly the same as when I play the Casio white keys one inch from the fallboard.

By the way, the guy who tuned my Acrosonic commented that the reason they were so popular in the 60's was because of their unusually light touch and booming sound for such a small-footprint piano.

I'm going to go play my Casio.

Sounds as counter-Fatar as it gets.

My Fatar TP31 has been preventing me from playing the Triton Extreme 88 for 15 years, now the replacement TP40L has come in flawed, and not much lighter in touch either. The only thing in common being that the Fatar has prevented me from learning the menus too.

I'm going to email Fatar, AM&S and Sweetwater for an umpteenth time next week.

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Originally Posted by pawelsz
[quote=napilopez][quote=pawelsz]Now look what Casio made. They made hammers for black keys TOO LIGHT. Why? Probably with TOO SHORT pivot length, the correctly weighted hammer would make black keys nearly unplayable when played near the fulcrum.

Sounds smart of Casio.

Their upper models look like there's a whole lot going on under the hood, with wooden parts, long pivot etc. Anyone with a first-hand experience with these, - nuances aside, do they feel lighter or heavier than the Privia series? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by trooplewis
By that same logic, we should all be using typewriters to hone our typing skills rather than computer keyboards. Totally different feel.

Some people prefer mechanical keyboards (emulating typewriters) to touchscreens. And some prefer touchscreens for convenience and acknowledge the disadvantages (like touch typing being impossible).

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People who drive BMWs might not be comfortable driving a Hyundai, but they make the adjustment and still retain the same driving skills regardless of the vehicle.

Unless they're driving stick (full manual transmission) they don't know anything that resembles the term "driving skills". They're passengers with a play/pause button. But their choice again is out of convenience.

And that's just the case with digital convenience pianos people choose for convenience. And they choose iPad apps instead of piano teachers for convenience. And they choose microwave meals over cooking for convenience.

Only on some forums, we have some people pretending Casio convenience products are just as good for developing piano skills as Steinway grands.

Originally Posted by Skropi
You can get a digital for less than 1000€, while you need at least double that for a decent, used acoustic. The difference is not insignificant.

Manufacturers don't care about broke people who can't afford anything, because these people can't afford their high margin products either. They care about people with lots of money and room to spare, who want to buy their expensive and convenient products - and that is the mass market of digital pianos. They are sold out for a reason.

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There is also the matter of space. It really is not possible for many to fit an acoustic in their house. I could possibly make it work, but I am no living alone, so....

Convenience. QED.


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Originally Posted by Skropi
You can get a digital for less than 1000€, while you need at least double that for a decent, used acoustic. The difference is not insignificant. There is also the matter of space. It really is not possible for many to fit an acoustic in their house. I could possibly make it work, but I am no living alone, so....
Personally I would love an acoustic, but I would need to spend around 3500€ for one, while for 1500€ I can get a decent p515.
I do agree in one thing though, if I could get an acoustic, I certainly would.

May I direct your attention to a video by the original subject of this whole thread (it seems we have wandered rather off-topic, have we not?) about a used piano he purchased for merely $100 USD. It is surprisingly beautiful in both appearance and sound, and goes to show that a decent, used acoustic can be purchased for far less than 2000€.


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Originally Posted by JoeT
Only on some forums, we have some people pretending Casio convenience products are just as good for developing piano skills as Steinway grands.

There isn't a single person here who has made that claim or would hold that belief.

Why do you express things so extremely and, frankly, so unpleasantly?

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Originally Posted by littlefinger
May I direct your attention to a video by the original subject of this whole thread (it seems we have wandered rather off-topic, have we not?) about a used piano he purchased for merely $100 USD. It is surprisingly beautiful in both appearance and sound, and goes to show that a decent, used acoustic can be purchased for far less than 2000€.


A real fallboard, a grand-style music stand and long keys (pivot). Pretty unique for an upright piano.


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by JoeT
Only on some forums, we have some people pretending Casio convenience products are just as good for developing piano skills as Steinway grands.
Why do you express things so extremely and, frankly, so unpleasantly?

Because that is in his nature: twist words and attract people into endless and pointless discussions. No point in arguing like there is no point in asking a brick wall to move out of your way: you simply ignore the wall, walk around it, and move on. You do that because you know that an Harvard education is certainly better than learning to read in a hut, but anything is better than no education, and any step in any direction is better than staying still.

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Originally Posted by JoeT
Unless they're driving stick (full manual transmission) they don't know anything that resembles the term "driving skills". They're passengers with a play/pause button. But their choice again is out of convenience.

I can see you are going to have a very frustrated future, because the manual transmission is going the way of the electric typewriter, at least in the U.S. due to cafe requirements.


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Well, I finally got to a store today that had a restock of digital pianos. I got to try a whole bunch for the first time....fp-30x, dx-670, Korg b2, px-s1000, cdp-s150, cdp-s350.

Unfortunately, I'm only a beginner 😁

I found the px-s1000 to be very different than the cdp-s150 and s350, which I think have the same action. The px-s1000 was very loose and rather light in comparison. I wonder if it was highly used.

Anyway, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, as a beginner, I could not really tell a difference in weighting between the black and white keys. Maybe a tiny bit at the low end. I tried really hard to test them, though I did not bring weights 😁

The keys on the Casios were definitely harder to pay near the fall board compared to the fp-30x and the Korg B2, though to me it was only really striking when I played right at the fall board. I did not play that long, so it may have been more apparent if I spent more time.

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Probably a reminder to us that any weighted digital under $1000 is just what it is, and beginners do not (and should not) care at all.

Last edited by OU812; 09/13/21 03:03 AM.
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Originally Posted by trooplewis
Originally Posted by JoeT
Unless they're driving stick (full manual transmission) they don't know anything that resembles the term "driving skills". They're passengers with a play/pause button. But their choice again is out of convenience.

I can see you are going to have a very frustrated future, because the manual transmission is going the way of the electric typewriter, at least in the U.S. due to cafe requirements.

CAFE caused the malaise era of the American car industry and helped sales of European and Japanese models, which were originally designed with manual transmissions and converted for the American market for convenience. During that time manual transmissions counted as being more efficient thanks to their fuel economy being dependent on driver skills. Nowadays they are considered be less efficient, because of being dependent on driver skills.

Originally Posted by DrTeeth
Anyway, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, as a beginner, I could not really tell a difference in weighting between the black and white keys. Maybe a tiny bit at the low end. I tried really hard to test them, though I did not bring weights 😁

The keys on the Casios were definitely harder to pay near the fall board compared to the fp-30x and the Korg B2, though to me it was only really striking when I played right at the fall board. I did not play that long, so it may have been more apparent if I spent more time.

You're not supposed to tell subtle differences in touch as a beginner, though you are aiming for learning that for dynamic control if you want to go beyond beginner status.

An even keyboard (front and back) with linear weight grading (left to right) on an instrument with a even large dynamic range (from pianissimo quiet to fortissimo loud) will help you with that, while low-budget Casio gear will hinder it.


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Last edited by DrTeeth; 09/16/21 06:05 PM.
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I have just received the Casio PX-S series advertisement e-mail and one phrase has catched my attention:

Textured key touch & 88 weighted smart scaled hammer action

Smart scaled... Could that have some hidden meaning or was it already used on previous models? confused


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PX-S models were "smart scaled" from already their first generation. That's what's different from the CDP-S models. Those are "dumb".

Depending on the day or the phase of the moon Casio either says that those two actions are "mechanically similar" or "not the same". And nobody has explained what the "smart scaling does", I think. The most official info is probably in posts from Mike Martin (Casio head of sales in North America, I think) on this very forum.

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
And nobody has explained what the "smart scaling does", I think.

The "smart" means the touch weight of the black keys is significantly different from that of the white keys.


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I recall it was meant as a marketing excuse to use double instead of triple sensors. Maybe they smartly moved 1st and 2nd to the positions of 2nd and 3rd?

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Originally Posted by _sem_
I recall it was meant as a marketing excuse to use double instead of triple sensors. Maybe they smartly moved 1st and 2nd to the positions of 2nd and 3rd?


That would make its sensors behaviour similar to Korg RH3.


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Actually Mike's comment on the hi res release velocity on the PXS I've found in practice not to be true, at least when sending external MIDI. The one thing I was disappointed about was that the specs for the PXS state release velocity sending in the MIDI implementation chart. I can't get anything but 64 out of it. Unless there's some hidden setting in the menus, I'm at a loss. Release velocity is very important to me when playing VST pianos. Haven't been able to confirm it in a quantitative way for internal voices though.

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Originally Posted by Deltajockey
Actually Mike's comment on the hi res release velocity on the PXS I've found in practice not to be true, at least when sending external MIDI.

You are not alone: https://www.casiomusicforums.com/in...000-midi-note-off-velocity-transmission/

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