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Several months ago I started a thread, "Standard Conundrum" after a purchase on a new Kawai GX3 fell through. Terrible, pre-increase, w/rebate, selling $$ 30, 400. Some didn't believe that possible. (all explained in aforementioned thread). Since then I've been to 3 dealerships, never found the right piece or what I felt were really serious about music salespeople. Ultimately, I purchased another GX3 in another state and they offered same pricing! 15k$ deposited later, I waited for months, heard little from selling co and got vague at best answers from Kawai. I'm sure expenses rose and perhaps the dealer had a buyer at a higher price but he kept offering the chance to cancel the (written) agreement and receive full refund. He blamed this on labor shortages and supply chain crises. After 4 calls like this, I finally told him that he was working harder at getting me to cancel than encouraging me to wait, so I cancelled. That's twice. After my in town baldwin dealer denounced the new Baldwins, I just started an open search and ended up in a problematic space..hence I am here looking for some serious advice/opinion. I titled this "conundrum continues" as the search from Jan 21 is now the post-Labor Day exhausted search. Of all places, looking online for reviews came across a lovely '96 Bal L, rare mahogany satin finish. BUT cannot find a mover for unf=der $2000 and 90 days for VA-Ma delivery. So search continued. This piano happened to be advertised on PM and as I looked at comparison pieces, PM brought up several, all of which I like but all would mean-I know- buying unseen. The list includes Boston, Baldwin L, Schimmel, all $10k-15k, all from 96-03, all, so stated and pictures represent, little used units (NY furniture ). They are so alike, but untried this could be dangerous....my other favorites include: Kawai, of course, new Baldwin, Estonia(beautiful) Brodmann and Hailun. All of these have generally great reviews. Now the debate begins!!
wmm


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I completely lost direction of what the OP is about while digging through the text.
Proper formatting might help I assume.


Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
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Confusing. Are you asking if you should buy one of those you list near the end sight unseen? What is the debate?

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Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad...THAT'S HARDLY THE CASE

It may be complex but I have never written without regard to format. Let me outline 1) this is a friendly forum where players, techs, discuss pianos....everyone is usually helpful with info mostly based on their experiences 2)My two attempts to procure a new Kawai GX3 fell through, mainly because of constant delays and excuses by the dealer 3)I cannot find any dealer who has much of an assortment on hand.Manufacturers want only authorized dealers at the exclusivity of other brands 4)I started looking online much as I don't want to buy a piano sight unseen 5) I listed the pianos found here on PM, gave the range of data, all in a 9 yr age range, all within 3" in length, all in a $5k price range. Detailing what those were, I was hoping for an interesting dialogue of pros/cons. I also referenced my prior thread from several months ago to further contextualize.


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"... an interesting dialogue of prose and cons ..." of any significance would require more than a list of piano brands, price range and vintage range. Nothing of the condition of these pianos is indicated in your post, and since condition is everything in the discussion of used pianos, I don't quite see how this dialogue could be fruitful or even begin.

Regards,

Last edited by BruceD; 09/11/21 11:22 PM.

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Originally Posted by BruceD
"... an interesting dialogue of prose and cons ..." of any significance would require more than a list of piano brands, price range and vintage range. Nothing of the condition of these pianos is indicated in your post, and since condition is everything in the discussion of used pianos, I don't quite see how this dialogue could be fruitful or even begin.

A summary of this absurd conundrum to debate: Chinese pianos are much better value than Japanese today.


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I find it hard to believe that you live in a piano 'blind spot' ha Just out of curiosity, I looked at Boston Craigslist and there are 70 hits for 'grand piano'.

https://boston.craigslist.org/d/musical-instruments/search/msa?query=grand+piano

There are sub $10K grands there, too


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Could you engage technician to inspect the pianos and at least report their condition? Difficult situation it seems.

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not *am* but *um*, "ad absurdum". Not that it matters one iota pianowise, but I am happy that I finally see a chance to apply 5 years of hard work on latin in school decades ago :-)

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Bill - I’ve been following this story from the beginning. I honestly think you will be happier if you can play the piano you buy. I know you’ve been frustrated with the dealerships in your area. Is there any possibility that you can travel a little farther away? New York or Philadelphia? There are quite a few dealers in NYC. You can contact them ahead of time, see if they have inventory that is of interest to you, ask about what the delivery process would be like, etc.

Several people here on PianoWorld have been very happy with their Matchless Cunningham pianos. This might be something else to think about, especially if you can make a trip to Philadelphia.

If you really want to pursue the sight unseen pianos on PianoMart, I agree that you will want to have a technician take a look at any that interest you. If you want comments on particular pianos, I’d include the links in this thread. I will say that, in my quite limited experience, Baldwin, Schimmel, and Boston pianos sound very different from one another (I didn’t play any of these pianos at the same dealership, but my recollection of how individual Baldwins, Schimmels, and Bostons sounded was that they really were very different from one another). IF they are all in excellent condition (which is a BIG if), I doubt that you would like them equally. You will only know which one(s) you like by playing them. You will also have a much better understanding of their actual condition when you have an independent technician’s report on the piano.

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Originally Posted by pianogabe
not *am* but *um*, "ad absurdum". Not that it matters one iota pianowise, but I am happy that I finally see a chance to apply 5 years of hard work on latin in school decades ago :-)
Dominus vobiscum


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You should not assume the Kawai dealers were purposely making you wait a long time or looking for a buyer who would pay more. Kawai and other makers slowed down production during the beginning of the pandemic because they thought demand for pianos would decrease. Actually, the opposite happened. So it is hard for Kawai and other dealers to get inventory.

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Originally Posted by wmm575
Now the debate begins!!

What debate?


Originally Posted by wmm575
never found ... what I felt were really serious about music salespeople.

Why does the salesperson have to be "serious about music?" (whatever that means)


Originally Posted by wmm575
I waited for months, heard little from selling co and got vague at best answers from Kawai. ... He blamed this on labor shortages and supply chain crises.

Believe it or not, there is a world-wide pandemic going on. Global supply chains are struggling to cope. You don't have trust the salesman on this. Just read the news.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...supply-chain-problem-keeps-getting-worse
https://www.reuters.com/business/gl...rus-variant-disasters-strike-2021-07-23/
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/business/supply-chain-shortages.html


Originally Posted by wmm575
After 4 calls like this, I finally told him that he was working harder at getting me to cancel than encouraging me to wait, so I cancelled.

Perhaps they were so over-the-top about being willing to give you your money back simply to reassure you that it was not at risk.


Originally Posted by wmm575
After my in town baldwin dealer denounced the new Baldwins

Why in the world would a Baldwin dealer "denounce" new Baldwins? The "old" Baldwins haven't been produced since '08, so he's had plenty of time to drop the line.


Originally Posted by wmm575
BUT cannot find a mover for unf=der $2000 and 90 days for VA-Ma delivery.

Long-distance moves take time to coordinate. They don't put your piano in a pickup truck and bring it directly to you. They consolidate large loads moving in the same direction.


Originally Posted by wmm575
I am here looking for some serious advice/opinion.

Opinion:

Your expectations don't seem realistic

Advice:

Be more patient. If you hadn't pulled the plug on either of the two cancelled deals, you might have a new piano by now.
Or, look more aggressively at used pianos closer to home that could be delivered as a local move. As others have noted, a quick scan of stuff w/in a 2 or 3 hour radius of you shows a number of interesting pianos.
Alternatively, take a more active role. Carpe Diem! Take a uHaul to VA and bring that Baldwin L home. Today!


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Originally Posted by wmm575
Several months ago I started a thread, "Standard Conundrum" after a purchase on a new Kawai GX3 fell through. Terrible, pre-increase, w/rebate, selling $$ 30, 400. Some didn't believe that possible. (all explained in aforementioned thread).

Since then I've been to 3 dealerships, never found the right piece or what I felt were really serious about music salespeople. Ultimately, I purchased another GX3 in another state and they offered same pricing! 15k$ deposited later, I waited for months, heard little from selling co and got vague at best answers from Kawai. I'm sure expenses rose and perhaps the dealer had a buyer at a higher price but he kept offering the chance to cancel the (written) agreement and receive full refund. He blamed this on labor shortages and supply chain crises. After 4 calls like this, I finally told him that he was working harder at getting me to cancel than encouraging me to wait, so I cancelled. That's twice.

After my in town baldwin dealer denounced the new Baldwins, I just started an open search and ended up in a problematic space..hence I am here looking for some serious advice/opinion. I titled this "conundrum continues" as the search from Jan 21 is now the post-Labor Day exhausted search. Of all places, looking online for reviews came across a lovely '96 Bal L, rare mahogany satin finish. BUT cannot find a mover for unf=der $2000 and 90 days for VA-Ma delivery.

So search continued. This piano happened to be advertised on PM and as I looked at comparison pieces, PM brought up several, all of which I like but all would mean-I know- buying unseen. The list includes Boston, Baldwin L, Schimmel, all $10k-15k, all from 96-03, all, so stated and pictures represent, little used units (NY furniture ). They are so alike, but untried this could be dangerous....my other favorites include: Kawai, of course, new Baldwin, Estonia(beautiful) Brodmann and Hailun. All of these have generally great reviews. Now the debate begins!!
wmm

This is what I think Vlad was trying to point out. Walls of text are hard to read.

You are welcome


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Originally Posted by cygnusdei
Originally Posted by pianogabe
not *am* but *um*, "ad absurdum". Not that it matters one iota pianowise, but I am happy that I finally see a chance to apply 5 years of hard work on latin in school decades ago :-)
Dominus vobiscum

et cum Spiritu tuo

Last edited by j&j; 09/12/21 01:24 PM.

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wmm575 Offline OP
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There was nothing wrong with the "format" of my first post and I studied Latin for 6 yrs at /BC High and BC.We all make typo errors now and then. The point on the 'fora' (correct plural) is to have interesting and productive discussions and help each other out with info. I don't know why this has turned into a multilingual correction squad. The first three replies were in attack mode. If you read my prior thread, you might understand the problem.


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YES, I do understand that. I allowed for the fact that at a selling price of $30400, the dealer might have regretted approving that OR had another customer who would pay more. However, it became frustrating as there was little contact. Passive aggressive behavior The salesman would leave emails during the day, and I'd always ask him to call on phone at work phone ##. He said that his store did not want that unit in stock ("not our niche"). I think that they were incurring endless delays and increased moving costs.
The whole point of my returning to the forum is that I cannot find any dealer who has an asst of brands, yes the nearby dealer totally disparaged the new BAldwin and so I was just doing research online and kept coming up with PianoMart listings. The pianos I listed and am considering, all by photos, and after conversations
w/owners, are in exc condition, all say barely used (verified by their technicians) and since I cannot play them side by side, just presented the problem (hence conundrum) for the usual spirited opinions (the debate). Could not make it clearer and have never seen to many aggressive responses.
wmm


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"Debate" simply refers to the spirited conversations presented by tuners, players, dealers and techs. I'm on the forum frequently and often read question based entries from some with no knowledge who are just looking for a little guidance with their likely first purchase. And instead of judging or criticizing have been helpful and happy to share their experience.
wmm


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As an experienced forum user/contributor, I regret that I have to spend the time and energy replying to replies that were not only not helpful, but caustic. What happened to the spirit that used to be manifested here.


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I have been playing since I was 6, and now over 70, been a teacher, clinical social worker, psychologist and ranking military officer. I have never heard of "format" problems.
Try to be helpful.


William M McGlinchey
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