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Hi all,

I have a Kawai MP7SE DP and am on the way of purchasing an E-drum kit for my son.

What PA system (stereo) do you recommend to best reproduce both the DP sound & e-drums (we intend to play the instruments solo but also together) and ideally also serve to listen to recorded music? The DP sound quality would be priority # 1 among the 3 intended uses.

The DP & future drums are placed in a pretty large open space in the house

The budget is max $1000, ideally $800, I imagine this won't buy me anything that comes close to having a perfect experience playing the DP, e-drums & listening to music so I am searching for the best compromise given the budget

I live in Europe and this is my short list:

Subs & satellites systems:
2 x dB Technologies ES602 - https://www.thomann.de/ro/db_technologies_es602.htm
LD Systems Dave 12 G3 - https://www.thomann.de/intl/ld_systems_dave_12_g3_bundle.htm
the box CL 108/115 - https://www.thomann.de/intl/the_box_cl_108_115mkii_basis_bundle.htm
the box CL 110/118MKII - https://www.thomann.de/intl/the_box_cl_110_118mkii_basis_bundle.htm

Full range PA speakers:
2 x EV ZLX 12P - https://www.thomann.de/intl/ev_zlx_12p.htm
2 x JBL Eon 612 - https://www.thomann.de/intl/jbl_eon_612.htm
2 x RCF ART 312 A MK IV - https://www.thomann.de/intl/rcf_art_312_a_mk_iv.htm
2 x Alto TS 315 - https://www.thomann.de/intl/alto_ts_315.htm
2 x Yamaha DBR10 https://www.thomann.de/ro/yamaha_dbr10.htm

My 2 assumptions are:
- for the intended uses I need a broad frequency response from the speakers (from the lowest to highest frequency)
- even though the speakers are not intended for events but for home practice I still need large woofers to reproduce the lower frequencies even though I will probably have the volume turned down and only use a small part of the speakers SPL.

Please let me know what you recommend out of all of these and if there are other options you see.

Thanks for your time and advice!

An off-the-wall question:

. . . Do you need two speakers, or would one be enough?

I suppose for the DP, stereo output from the DP is normal, and stereo speakers make sense.

Since I like my old EV ZX-A1, I'm biased (without any good reason) toward the ZLX 12P. There is something interesting in the specs:

. . . Although the woofer is 12", the low-frequency cutoff is
. . . rather high -- either 50 Hz, or 65 Hz.

It seems to be built for use with a subwoofer (if you want gut-moving bass drum sounds).

And yet another note, from the EV website:

:

I saw a note (probably in this forum, somewhere) about DSP circuitry sometimes adding significant latency, and being undesirable in a stage monitor. You might want to check that.

Have fun deciding - - -

Thanks for the reply!

The DP has stereo output so, yes having a stereo system makes sense from this perspective and also for listening to music.


Truth is I don't know if i need a sub or not for the intended uses but I imagine it's more useful for drums & music playback rather than the DP


Wow! I didn't now that! Thanks for the heads up!
BT probably stands for Bluetooth so I imagine same speaker with BT


Thanks, I will search for the thread in the forum, latency definitely isn't something I would appreciate when practicing..



Wish it were but it's more frustrating than fun as I have 0 experience with PA speakers

Thanks again!

Hi,
I went looking for a PA system for home use for my piano and for something to accompany my Sax playing. Having spoken to a couple of stores I finished up with a different solution as i felt the power provided by a PA wasn’t what I wanted, so instead went with some wide dispersion active monitors - Presonus E66, which in theory give a higher quality but less powerful solution when compared with a PA.

How did you come up with the idea that you need to set up a PA system? It makes no sense to me.

PA systems even two times more than your budget sound really really bad (horrendous). They are just made to sound loud and they are terrible in the high freq range.

Your best bet is to get a pair of 8" studio monitors if you care about the audio quality.

Thanks for the info and suggestion!
Are the E66s able to fill a (large) room with sound and did you by any chance play any sort of music which included drums? I am curious if they can handle also the lower frequencies / bass that the drums produce.






Good question!
Actually I don't really know how I became convinced that the only solution for home practice & listening to music is a PA system

I guess I just imagined that playing a piano also with drums and maybe other instruments in the future requires a more powerful output and also that it has to also have a subwoofer.

But, as I said I am a newbie when it comes to any sort of amplification so your feedback about the very bad sound quality coming out of PAs is very appreciated!

I am open to any suggestion that would provide the best sound quality given my budget.
What 8" studio monitors would you recommend for the intended uses I described in the first post?
I think for me the most important aspect is to be able to have a decent enough volume & frequency cover (including bass) when practicing with my son.

Thanks!

for edrums, if you don't have a sub, it's generally accepted that you need at least 15" speakers - the Yamaha dxr15 is a one-speaker option you could consider. Roland keyboard amps are also pretty good for e-drums. something like the kc150 might work for you.

if you're willing to get a sub then your options (and your wallet) open up - qsc pa systems are well regarded.

8" studio monitors are going to be next to useless for live playing with e drums. 1) they don't move enough air for a decent bass response from the kick drum. 2) with e drums, you need quite a bit of volume to get over the ambient sound of striking the drums. they're much quieter than acoustic drums but get a drum stick and hit your kitchen table with it and you'll get an idea of the volume

There are headphone mixers around that you can plug your keys and drums into and both listen though headphones while you play. this will provide a much better sound than you'll get through any speakers unless you spend a lot of money and turn them up very loud.

below is a link to one of these but I've never used it and there are others out there so research the options if you think this approach would work for you. it is what i would do in your situation

http://www.jamhub.com/



let us know what you end up doing

Alot of keyboard amps and PAs have untamed tweeters that cause problems for pianos and organs with respect to an even scale, often some nasty high frequency peaks causing a shrill sound. Most do not approach the fidelity of a tweeter in a pretty good home stereo speaker.

The JBL EON 610, 612, and 615 use the JBL 2414H-1 compression horn tweeter. This is the same tweeter as is used in the JBL Studio 530 home stereo bookshelf speakers. Based on the good reviews of that home speaker, I ordered a JBL EON 612 to replace a previous PA speaker that I was not happy with.

So far, I've found the EON 612 to work fine with my MP7SE and Nord C2 after an adequate break-in of the speaker drivers. Piano and organs are playable without the high frequency distortion that plagues many PA's in the $500 and under price range. I generally would not fully trust the accuracy of a PA for monitoring while recording, but I have been satisfied with this as a keyboard amplifier.

Bass rolloff of the EON 612 is -3dB at 57Hz, which is good for a 12" PA. (It is not enough for 16' organ pedal stops). You have to get a heavier 15" model from Electrovoice or Yamaha or Mackie or Peavey to match that, and then the mids may not be as smooth.

The EON 612 is not perfect, but has been noticeably better than average in its price range. I would avoid similar products from Alto or Behringer.

You don't want stereo for getting together to play with other musicians or for small venues or home usage. These have more dispersion and projection than stereo speakers and dual stereo channels will just blur anyway in a smaller space. Even in a large enough venue for adequate speaker separation for stereo PAs, I would probably run dual mono if more than one were needed.

You just need 1 for the keyboard and 1 for the e-drums.

Probably not the same product for the e-drums.

+1 for JBL powered monitors. I have the LSR305 and they’re phenomenal, one of my favorite purchases. I use them for piano, and special occasion movies and music.

I just would get 8" if doing it over.

I use LSR305's. Nearfield monitors generally are not very suitable for playing with other musicians.

I think most PA's do not go low enough for a kick drum with a peak I think around 40Hz. A Roland or Peavey keyboard amp would work. I would probably prefer a Peavey KB3 to a Roland amp. I've not used the Peavey product, but I believe it has a coaxially mounted compression horn tweeter instead of the piezoelectric horn of a Roland amp. A KB3 also would be an option for a digital piano. It is a bit heavy, although likely has better bass extension than a PA as a result.

I find a powered PA ideal because it is not a heavy load to haul for rehearsals, doubles as a floor monitor when running to a house PA, and an easy load and functional solution when getting together with other musicians for a session generally.

Stereo sound reinforcement might benefit piano solos in a jazz trio or quartet in a restaurant. They will be mono for a listener in a small space or someone far back in a large space.

I generally run both L and R from the output of stereo samples to the two inputs of the EON 612 and mix down to mono with the summing line mixer in the PA. Note that equal gain in each channel is not always the optimal mixdown-- it is a good starting point, and then test small increments either way on one channel.

Just to reiterate, for live edrums,

nearfield monitors are next to useless.

8" speakers are next to useless

12" speakers without a sub won't give a decent bass response

one of the few speakers agreed to give a decent bass response without a sub for edrums is a yamaha dxr15. i am not affiliated with yamaha or anyone

for home use, to get over the ambient sound of the edrums, you will have to have the speaker loud.

since you are also looking for something to use at small venues, the dxr15 is probably the best option for your edrums. it will also handle the piano easily (though it might not be as pleasing for the piano sound as a 12" speaker)

good info in this very long thread (and in others on this site). The first few pages give good information about the basics and the issues
https://www.vdrums.com/forum/performance/on-stage/39912-once-and-for-all-pa-monitors

Diameter of the driver is just one consideration. Rigidity and size of the cabinet and excursion of the driver also factor into the bass extension.

PA's primarily have larger drivers to move enough air to project their frequency range over a wide area. A 15" PA driver will have less bass extension than a 10" home subwoofer.

I'm surprised that the Yamaha DRX15 is popular for v-drums. It is spec'd as -10dB at 49Hz, which is not tremendous bass extension. It most likely has a -3dB rolloff at 55-60Hz. There are 12" keyboard amps with more bass extension than this.

There's something else to consider:

. . . Do you really want "club levels" of low bass, in your practice room?

Maybe a pair of Klipshorns should be added to the suggestion list ? <g>

I would focus on a small stereo pa that sounds really good for acoustic piano. This is going to be the sound that requires the best speakers. So, no keyboard amps and no 12 or 15” speakers. 8 or 10” will give better mid-range accuracy. Look for recommendations from people who gig. There are candidates from EV, QSC and Yamaha that will fill your need. (QSC K-8.2 maybe). The bass capabilities don’t matter as long as you get down to 65-75Hz. Look at the next step.

Then supplement the setup with a single subwoofer for the kick drum and left hand bass. This doesn’t have to be a monster in size, but make sure you can filter out the frequencies that are produced by your main pair. You can add this later if need be.

PA's generally won't accomplish that even if you wanted them to.

If you're looking for something to enjoy at home and jamming with your son PAs are overkill. Do you live in a house? PAs are made for loudness. If you want the entire neighbourhood to hear you playing, then go for it.




The OP has a limited budget and said he's not going to play in an event.

To me, a pair of 8-inch monitor speakers are perfectly fine for home/studio practice. You can add a subwoofer later on if ever needed.

Yamaha DRX series have variable compressors builtin. You will lose substantial dynamic capability for piano solos. These are designed for vocals plus accompaniment.

The bass rolloff around 75Hz of some 8" PA speakers is a limitation for some music, so it depends on what will be played, knowledge of which may require predicting the future. What if you want to do a split keyboard and play piano accompaniment with the right hand, and synthesizer bass with the left hand (as 1 example)?

Some smaller PAs even have a variable high pass filter that rolls off the bass at increasing frequencies as volume is increased so that they
have the equivalent of a loudness equalizer circuit on a home stereo amp and can publish attractive-looking frequency response specs for the low volume performance but that are total fiction at higher volumes.

Gigging in stereo not only requires two speakers, but also room on the stage to place them for good separation. Even then, people far back will hear mono, and people close to one of the speakers will only hear one stereo channel.

My vote for a pair of PA speakers
When playing e-drums you'll need them.

get one rcf art 715 a mk iv

and one rcf art 710 a mk iv

just an idea