2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Advanced Piano Tricks
Advanced Piano Tricks
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
89 members (Bebe1980, Abdol, butchkoch, andrewlapp, brdwyguy, 36251, Blague, 22 invisible), 1,156 guests, and 447 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 25 of 33 1 2 23 24 25 26 27 32 33
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
This does not shift any burden of proof. None at all.
Originally Posted by MBiG
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'd prefer not to need this extra diligence. But the situation stinks and the buyer needs to be wary.
Legally, however, this shifts the burden of proof to the customer.
I'm simply hoping to pick the best fruit.
If I'm successful then I avoid a post-sale warranty claim.
But if the unit is defective despite my best effort to select a good one, the manufacturer is still on the hook to make good.

Skill is not required for any of that ...
Originally Posted by MBiG
And besides, not every customer is as technically educated as you are. For all these customers who would rather play an instrument than build up a profound knowledge of all the pitfalls of current devices, this concept unfortunately does not work for them.
Anyone who can put fingers on keys can test a piano.

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 75
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 75
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. I was referring to the big picture in my remarks regarding this discussion. Of course, it is not my place to criticise the approach you suggest. As long as we stick to the big picture on this topic, you are of course not right, and I reserve the right to attest to this from my point of view and with my knowledge background.

Back to the subject of NV5S.

Apart from the quality shortcomings, this instrument is a truly outstanding product. One can indeed attest a liveliness to this instrument that is close, even unmistakable, to an analogue upright. In the bass, the whole body shakes, the mids are very well pronounced and the treble has a clear definition. The keyboard allows very fine nuances. And actually feels similar to a K200 keyboard.

I also had an MP11SE with good Adam monitors. This system is easily surpassed in every aspect by the NV5S.

Well done KAWAI

(Of course unfortunately also in price and lack of product quality).

Many thanks at this point for the advice before testing the NV5S to the members of this forum which I received via PM.

Kind regards, MBiG


Analogue: Sauter - Hohner - Solton; Digital: Casio - Yamaha;
(A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush)
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,802
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,802
MBiG,

I'm sorry to read that about the grievances you're experiencing with your NV5S.

Am I correct in thinking that the instrument was purchased from Thomann.de?

If so, have you already reported your concerns directly to the retailer?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 75
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 75
Hello James,

Thank you for your query. Yes, you have guessed correctly.

We, "T", and I are already in contact about this and will find a solution.

Therefore, you do not need to worry about anything else.

"T", is doing a very good job regarding DTCC, this must be explicitly mentioned again at this point.

Once again, many thanks to you,

Kind regards, MBiG

Last edited by MBiG; 08/01/21 12:51 AM.

Analogue: Sauter - Hohner - Solton; Digital: Casio - Yamaha;
(A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush)
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 6
F
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
F
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 6
I don't think that option has been taken away, I still see it mentioned on the NV10s product page in the "Virtual Technician Adjustments" section https://kawaius.com/product/novus-nv10s/ - relevant sentence:
Quote
It is even possible to adjust the precise tuning and volume of individual notes before storing one’s favorite instrument configuration to memory.

Furthermore, I think the NV10s has similar firmware as the CA79. On the CA79 product page, individual key voicing is explicitly mentioned, so I'm fairly confident the NV10s has that ability, do we have a lucky owner who can check?

https://kawaius.com/product/ca79/

Quote
Perform touch weight and voicing adjustments, regulate hammer and key release noises, and fine-tune string, damper, and cabinet resonances. It is even possible to adjust the precise tuning, volume, and character of individual notes – all in real-time.

Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 114
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by eddiepiano
Thats a shame really. I really like the action and sound NV-5(S) if everything works. But the numerous problems, the keys, the speaker buzzing issues, the heavy and stiff damper pedal (WHY? Kawai makes acoustic pianos and they now exactly how it should feel like and its not that hard and stiff on any of their acoustics)?

First Kawai needs to admit it has a pedal stiffness problem. It doesn't. Also, there doesn't seem to be a known measure of pedal weight so we can't compare, which helps Kawai get away with avoiding the issue. The comparison I did was by comparing all the Kawai acoustics in my dealer's showroom and none of them were as stiff as the NV10 (and presumably NV10S since no change to spring mechanism has been made so far). You can do the same comparison - it does not match acoustic pedal weight and it's obvious. The remedy is simple for Kawai to provide but because we have not made Kawai acknowledge the problem, there is nothing to rectify. Rectification involves having a more correct spring and having a tech replace it. Probably less than 15 minutes and material cost less than $10.

So now the burden lies fully with consumer to rectify or live with it.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,804
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,804
My guess is that Kawai uses one spring across its grands (and it's a beauty, chromed/polished, with a red felt strip wrapped around each coil for damping) that they also use in the NV-10, but because the damper lever arm is shorter in the NV-10 (it has to fit in the very shallow bottom unit) there's less mechanical advantage and thus the pedal ends up requiring more force to press.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Does Kawai need to admit anything about the pedal? Why? And how would they admit it? Need they send you a communique?

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 64
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by kailord
Originally Posted by eddiepiano
Thats a shame really. I really like the action and sound NV-5(S) if everything works. But the numerous problems, the keys, the speaker buzzing issues, the heavy and stiff damper pedal (WHY? Kawai makes acoustic pianos and they now exactly how it should feel like and its not that hard and stiff on any of their acoustics)?

First Kawai needs to admit it has a pedal stiffness problem. It doesn't. Also, there doesn't seem to be a known measure of pedal weight so we can't compare, which helps Kawai get away with avoiding the issue. The comparison I did was by comparing all the Kawai acoustics in my dealer's showroom and none of them were as stiff as the NV10 (and presumably NV10S since no change to spring mechanism has been made so far). You can do the same comparison - it does not match acoustic pedal weight and it's obvious. The remedy is simple for Kawai to provide but because we have not made Kawai acknowledge the problem, there is nothing to rectify. Rectification involves having a more correct spring and having a tech replace it. Probably less than 15 minutes and material cost less than $10.

So now the burden lies fully with consumer to rectify or live with it.


Kawai NV10, Kawai MP7SE, Nord Electro 6D, Pianoteq 7 (Steinway D, Bechstein, Electric)
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 64
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by kailord
Originally Posted by eddiepiano
Thats a shame really. I really like the action and sound NV-5(S) if everything works. But the numerous problems, the keys, the speaker buzzing issues, the heavy and stiff damper pedal (WHY? Kawai makes acoustic pianos and they now exactly how it should feel like and its not that hard and stiff on any of their acoustics)?

First Kawai needs to admit it has a pedal stiffness problem. It doesn't. Also, there doesn't seem to be a known measure of pedal weight so we can't compare, which helps Kawai get away with avoiding the issue. The comparison I did was by comparing all the Kawai acoustics in my dealer's showroom and none of them were as stiff as the NV10 (and presumably NV10S since no change to spring mechanism has been made so far). You can do the same comparison - it does not match acoustic pedal weight and it's obvious. The remedy is simple for Kawai to provide but because we have not made Kawai acknowledge the problem, there is nothing to rectify. Rectification involves having a more correct spring and having a tech replace it. Probably less than 15 minutes and material cost less than $10.

So now the burden lies fully with consumer to rectify or live with it.

There is no need for a technician. I replaced it by myself, and I am not an expert at all. It is very simple.


Kawai NV10, Kawai MP7SE, Nord Electro 6D, Pianoteq 7 (Steinway D, Bechstein, Electric)
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,802
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,802
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Does Kawai need to admit anything about the pedal? Why? And how would they admit it? Need they send you a communique?

I believe this customer has already been in touch with Kawai Japan, and one of my colleagues has responded to their queries.

If this customer is still not satisfied, they should consult with the dealer to find a suitable solution.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 45
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 45
I just called to Kawai distributor in Poland (Silesia music center) and they told me they don’t know when NV10s will be available (I ordered one in may via another dealer but they handle shipment from Kawai). Also they still don’t know what the price will be. Seemingly there is such material shortage that it’s not possible to predict anything. So I still don’t know if I get NV10S this year…

Is it global Kawai shortage or Poland is a low priority market?

Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 30
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by bilb
Is it global Kawai shortage or Poland is a low priority market?

It is global every brand shortage.

Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 2
J
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 2
Any way these improvements will be available to owners of the NV5...especially the updated sound engine?

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,637
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,637
Originally Posted by Jack K
Any way these improvements will be available to owners of the NV5...especially the updated sound engine?

I wish they would send an update for the NV10 also. I have said before, the Pianist mode sounds good through speakers, but less so with headphones. So I have to use a VST to practice. (IMO, of course) So if the new sound engine is better, I would like to have it.


Kawai NV10
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Not likely.
Originally Posted by Jack K
Any way these improvements will be available to owners of the NV5...especially the updated sound engine?

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,637
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,637
I know. frown


Kawai NV10
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 66
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 66
I took the plunge and bought an NV10s. It arrived in 1 week, nice and easy and to be honest it’s a thing of beauty to play. I legitimately can obtain much better musical results than I did with my old FP90 or a Feurich Upright I rented a while ago - without even touching any setting. The action truly is a joy smile

But… there are 2 things I’d like to hear you people’s opinions on:
1. The sustain pedal is super stiff, which I noticed trying NV10, too, and it’s ok. It’s quite thumpy, though, in the sense that when I release it, even softly, it makes a noise perceivably louder than the other pedals - as the top of the pedal touches the body of the piano. It ain’t a big deal as I can adapt my pedal press, but I wonder if there’s a DIY fix to it.

2. Much line EVERY freaking DP I owned, there’s a note that sounds super distorted and loud: in this case C#3 and C#4. NV10s sound is SO clean, but playing arpeggios with that c# (say, Nuvole Bianche) makes for very unpleasant, unnaturally loud, echo-y notes. It obviously doesn’t happen when wearing headphones.

The dealer says it’s a known sampling issue and Kawai is aware of it, also other customers have complained - though about different notes. In my mind if it was a sampling issue, people should be complaining about the same note, no? Is it actually a known issue that will soon be solved by a FW update?

I always had the impression that these unnaturally distorted notes are the result of bumps during transport that make the sensor / speakers screw up. But dealers never recognise that as an issue. Does anyone have any idea what this problem can be caused by?

Last edited by Hecarim; 08/24/21 05:47 PM.
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,804
G
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,804
Originally Posted by Hecarim
The dealer says it’s a known sampling issue and Kawai is aware of it, also other customers have complained - though about different notes. In my mind if it was a sampling issue, people should be complaining about the same note, no? Is it actually a known issue that will soon be solved by a FW update?

I always had the impression that these unnaturally distorted notes are the result of bumps during transport that make the sensor / speakers screw up. But dealers never recognise that as an issue. Does anyone have any idea what this problem can be caused by?

Congrats on the NV-10s!

If you hear a loud note over the speakers, and NOT through the headphones, then it's VERY likely that the problem is acoustic resonance with the environment (the room you're in), rather than something with the DP. These can be notoriously hard to eliminate, but you could try moving the DP to a different part of the room, a different room, and try putting up some rugs on the wall or on the floor under the DP, if anything just to see if it attenuates that loud note.

The dealer's statement that a sampling issue that affects different notes on different units doesn't make sense to me, as you've stated. I've never heard anything like that discussed here. Don't expect an FW update for it.

As for the pedal, now that IS something that's been discussed frequently here, and brought up to Kawai, but it seems they haven't done much about it. A few of us have sourced a similarly sized spring with a lower elastic rate, and just replaced the spring in the NV-10 that's attached to the pedal/damper assembly. It's an easy mod and 100% solves the issue. But it's unfortunate that it's left to the end user to do this.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 45
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Hecarim
I took the plunge and bought an NV10s. It arrived in 1 week, nice and easy and to be honest it’s a thing of beauty to play.

How come? I am waiting months now and there is no even an estimate when it will arrive in Poland. I am truly jealous! May I ask what the price was? The dealer is telling me they don't know the price yet, but probably it will be 10-30% more expensive than NV10.

Page 25 of 33 1 2 23 24 25 26 27 32 33

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Cambodia
by PhilipInChina - 01/21/22 12:03 AM
Hey y'all, here's my best solo recording
by An Old Square - 01/20/22 09:44 PM
PSR-E473
by waljbt74 - 01/20/22 09:26 PM
Info on pre 1990s Weinbach? (Petrof)
by monsieur souvlaki - 01/20/22 03:28 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!

Free Piano Lovers Newsletter is out now!
Piano News 2021 - 2022!
---------------------
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics211,271
Posts3,162,699
Members104,104
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5