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I just watched a new video from Stu Harrison in Merriam Music on Boston 178 vs Kawai Gx2:

I think many PF members can be interested in this comparison so I posted it here. Hope that you will enjoy the video

Based on their website, Merriam is a dealer for Kawai and not for Boston. That's why it took so long for him to get both on his showroom floor. Is it surprising that his video favors Kawai? Plus we have no idea about how each piano was prepped.

I'm writing this post before I hear any of his comments on both pianos. That's how sure I am of what he will say. Kawai and Boston pianos are competitors. Which one do you think the Kawai dealer will say, even if subtly, is best? Wouldn't it be the stupidest business decision in history if he concluded Bostons were better or even the equal of Kawai?

And I think some of his comments are BS. He starts comparing the sustain of each but while testing sustain plays different music on each, plays basically in the mid range and lower, and plays with the pedal. To me, this is not the best way or possibly not even an appropriate way to test sustain.

When he tests the treble bass transition he plays a chromatic scale but I think the question should be how the transition sounds and if it's noticeable when playing music. My tech said that any piano will show some lack of smooth transition if one listens for it by playing a chromatic scale. Also, what attempt was made by the Merriam techs to try to improve what he hears as a less smooth transition across the break?

What I don't like about this video and some others from him(I have commented on a video by him in another thread but don't remember which pianos he was comparing) is that he presents these videos as an unbiased comparison for the benefit of its viewers but IMO they are ads for the pianos he sells.

Very interesting comparision. Thank you so much for sharing.

Have you considered leaving your comments to them?

Hmmm... I actually prefer the sound of the Boston. A little cleaner and more direct.

Similar street value? Kawai appears to have a higher list price.

Boston 178 is much more costly than GX2, at least at my country.

I have to disagree there. He played the 2nd movement of the Pathetique Sonata on both, and that is an excellent piece to use to test tonal sustain, which is concerned with whether the tone envelope supports playing the melody with a singing tone.

The problem is that this will depend on how it is played. We have no way of being sure he wasn't biasing the result by how he was playing on each piano. But if it was an unbiased test, I would agree with the conclusion that the Kawai produced a more singing tone for the melody. The Boston tonal envelope was slightly more brittle in the rendition.

A better test would be for the piece to be played by a pianist who is neutral and is trying to get the most out of each piano.

I might prefer the Boston for Baroque repertoire and the Kawai for Classical and Romantic repertoire.

In the US, asking price for the Boston 178 is several thousand $ less than the Kawai GX-2 (based on recent visit to local dealers). Having played both recently, I prefer the Kawai on every measure. More dynamic range and much more control at pp. The Boston I played sounded better than the one in this video but for me dynamic range, control, sustain and overall feel are my priorities. Either is a good choice in this price range but there are others to consider.

No, he played the Pathetique(very amateurishly) on both much earlier in the video before he started discussing sustain. IMO it also makes far more sense to test sustain without using pedal and concentrating on testing notes starting around G above middle C or a little higher. Notes below those will not have a sustain problem an any decent piano.

I like the comparison, the micing is identical, he's playing the same way in both pianos, side by side, he's a salesman but a very good pianist. So where do you find these nice comparisons on the tube? You must be a dealer to make such comparisons, because these pianos you can find them side by side only in the shops. The result is clear, Kaway has yes more punch and clarity, but personally I prefer the sound of the Boston. All this, regardless of prices.

Hmmmmmm - interesting comparison but all true they may unintentionally be slightly biased.

In May/June of 2021, when I was searching for an upgrade - I had the opportunity to compare these 2 pianos
at different showrooms.

I remember playing several Boston 178 PEII's, THREE to be exact.(2 Different Steinway Piano Galleries) Only one of them was very nice, the other two I would not have considered as they were what I would call 'shallow' in depth of sound & tone. So I moved up to the 198 PEII, much nicer and I considered but they would not budge on the $43k price tag.

Move forward a week later, Freeburg Pianos:
I played a new Kawai GX-2, a Steinway Model A (rebuilt from 1912) & a new M&H Model A.
All 3 had a tone I liked very very much, and each had a touch that felt smooth and pleasant.

Cost: GX-2 (special price of $26K)
Steinway A - $39k
M&H A - $56k

M&H played exquisite New Age/Softer Classical but had trouble playing my big Broadway Overture pieces and I didn't want to spend that much in my budget.

Steinway performed BOTH Pieces equally well

Kawai GX-2 - loved loved the feel and I truly almost went with - tried to find out the negotiated price would be for a GX-3
figuring the depth was even broader but had to purchase sight-unseen. hmmmm I don't think so and they (the Kawai Rep on the phone) would not budge from a $50k price.

MY POINT HERE: if I had to purchase either the Boston or Kawai - I know in fact for sure, I would have chosen the Kawai GX-2.
as soon as I sat at the piano and played I KNEW this is one of the top contenders
(The best way I can describe it was - it DID what I asked it to do and easily)
(I had so many Steinway L's and even a B - FIGHT ME as I would say)


BUT
I went with the 'sure thing' as they say:

The Steinway Model A - from the Golden Era 1912, beautifully rebuilt and refinished, for a price at the top of my budget (40k)

(If it's your final piano, try to get the largest one at the top of your budget - I DID)


my story
brdwyguy

and they lived happily ever after JDM & his Grand Lady Amalia


Until a beautifully refinished/refurbished Mason & Hamlin Model AA from 1900-1929 comes along that plays better!

The GX2 in this video sounds amazing. I tried two GX2s when I was shopping and neither sounded like this. They were a bit dull, almost muddy. I would have easily bought this one though.

This is one of those very rare cases where I've actually played both of these pianos!! And at the same dealer!

I loved all of the new Boston grands I played (sorry, I know regular PW posters are tired of hearing me say that) and although I liked the sound of so of the Kawais I tried (and def like the Gx line more than the GL line), I disliked (ok, tbh, hated) the Kawai action.

So that's my bias.

Having said that, although I'm still watching/listening to the video, but so far, I don't have an opinion.... They both sound great. While I'm hearing one I think I like it better, then when he switches to the other piano, I think I like that one better.

More importantly, I agree with pianoloverus, I would prefer to hear each piece back to back on the same instrument, rather than two pieces on the Boston, two pieces on the Kawai.... Maybe I'll go back later and click around to listen to it that way.

Separate from this comparison.... I feel like where the Boston grands really excel is when you compare the smaller size (or the two smaller ones) the 163 (5'4") and the 156 to other brands with those sizes (like the smaller Kawai and Yamaha grands). In those sizes, the Boston's wide tail really makes its presence known. Or at least that's my recollection of it from when I was piano shopping. I suspect that as you move up in sizes, the wide tail doesn't offer the same advantage compared to other fuller sized grands....

Maybe, maybe not.

But this thread is making me want to go out piano shopping again! Comparing pianos is so fun!!!

Sorry, one more comment:

I also think this video is biased and vaguely dishonest because the guy's agenda is to promote Kawai....

Oh, come on. You could say the same about anyone who is touting their recent purchase and is hoping for approval. If this level of salesmanship bothers you, you need to get out more. (Besides, if he is playing a Boston in his shop, it was probably traded in and he is trying to sell that one, as well.)

Not at all. An individual who just bought a piano is very different from a person who owns a large dealership and has a vested interest in promoting a particular brand of piano.


I don't know that I'd say it "bothers" me... I mean, all salesmen sell. Everyone needs to eat.

I would be a little suspicious of a Mac store doing a comparison between an iPad and a Surface tablet.

To me, this is the same thing.

The commentary is still interesting. But not unbiased.

He doesn't say he's a Kawai dealer and presents the video as an unbiased report. For that reason I think he's being very deceptive, and that's what makes it more than salesmanship. It's no different than if you visit a dealer and they bash the competition except that the bashing is more subtle and presented as an unbiased evaluation. What a contrast with Rich G.'s totally upfront and straight forward post on this thread.

I find your third sentence nasty which is the way I think it was intended.

Yes to pianoloverus's comments here. If the video was more upfront, it would be better. And actually being upfront about it would add a lot of credibility. (As pianolover points out, there's no better model of credibility than Rich G.)


Indeed.

Maestro Lennie, please don't take personal shots like that. It diminishes the quality of exchange on the forum and is antithetical to what PW is all about.