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The simplest thing is to ask students of music institutions in other countries; and I did it in Netherlands
and Germany. The answer was similar: the one who sews dresses does not make bulletproof vests for the army, and vice versa. There is a very limited number of teachers who are able to do both at a decent level; for example Rembrandt Frerichs at the Utrecht Conservatory , Brenden Lowe .
There is a good example of Mike Garson, who is equally professional in classical, jazz and pop (he worked with David Bowie at 1002 concerts).

I am also surprised too and I'm not sure why I haven't. Most likely due to the thought that I just don't think I could ever sound even halfway decent... I should probably step out and give a go though as I have always wanted to.

Great videos, thanks for sharing!

Okay, I was wrong about most classical teachers being able to do both, at least based on the replies here and on what my teacher said at my lesson today. I asked her if she taught pop and she said no. She said she didn't feel prepared to teach it and didn't have enough interest to make the effort.

How common are teachers who teach only pop? I'm thinking pop up to at least the intermediate level or beyond?

Sebs - I’m curious about how much of a ‘beginner’ you are. I see forum posts dating to 2015 - if you’ve been playing all this time, I think some of the advice given to you may not have been from an understanding of where you actually are on your piano journey. It seems like you’ve been doing this long enough that you should have a sense of whether you have enough time to embark on classical piano lessons with another teacher (or whether you have your hands plenty full with your pop piano lessons). If you do feel like you have the time for delving into classical piano, my vote is to go for it. Unless you’d rather use the time learning to sing, or doing whatever else you want on your musical journey. Life is short. If you want to try something different, why not?

I wish I had been playing since 2015 consistently. I played off and on for about a year maybe little more in 2015 and that was only using piano marvel app. I have been playing consistently for a couple years now and have regular lessons too. I still consider myself quite a beginner and I'm also probably a lot harder on myself than I should be...

I like your point being if you have time and want to do it, why not. I think some variety is good and whatever we enjoy or keeps us motivated is always win.

A full-time pop piano teacher ? I've never seen anything like this. Or is it a side profession of musicians in the pop business; or of jazz musicians in a similar situation. For both classical piano teachers and jazz music teachers, teaching pop piano is uninteresting; however, for various reasons: for jazzers, based on their professional knowledge, it is too simple, and even primitive; for the classics, based on their misunderstanding of the genre, not related to musical tradition and musical notation.
I started giving pop piano lessons, having in my pocket professional knowledge in the pedagogy of jazz, classical piano, classical violin; and zero concept of pop piano. Eventually I found a really interesting area of diverse pop rhythm adaptations; which stands aside both classics and jazz.

Those are some large blanket statements you're applying across a large group of teachers and very well could be untrue, it might be the case for some but speaking on behalf of all teachers is a huge assumption.

He means that jazzers apply similar tools to the pop musicians, but far, far more advanced. I'm not sure what exactly the classical bit means.

@nahum, I think you are typecasting classical piano teachers...

@Sebs, in my opinion the best way to go is the classical route.

If you look at all the professionals pianist, rock, pop, blues, jazz, R&B, etc.... Are all classically trained.

I'm sure there is exceptions to the rule but the vast majority went the classical route first.

Even if you are not a classical fan (just guessing here) you normally don't spend more than 3 weeks on a piece at the early levels anyway. Its not like you spend an eternity on the pieces.

No matter what type of music you will get sick of playing a song/piece eventually.

I'm willing to bet at one point, classical music would grow on you.

Also if you are classically trained it would be easier to play pop music later on.

Its your journey and your decision but that is what I would do.

It may very well be that you are right for your country; only you do not give any facts from teacher surveys . What I wrote about the situation in educational institutions in the Netherlands and Germany is not general statistics, but tendency ,giving a hint.
But in my country - give me a credit ! From 1979 until my retirement in 2013 ( for 33 years), I acted as a teacher in country key areas of non-classical music education; was personally acquainted with all teachers in the field (not today!), as well as many classical - private, and from both music academies. Gradually my students took over the teaching baton in the same places, but not pop; and one of them mentioned his children (ages 27-30), who currently teach jazz, pop, and classics. Of course, everyone periodically performs . Remember MTV? If you are looking for a competent teacher in the areas of classics and pop, then in the ages 30-25.
In the college where I work, and it's not that big, today I am the only teacher of pop, classical and jazz - in that order of priority.

Oh yeah , from an acquaintance with two teachers ...

This advice is given often enough that I wanted to comment on it…

If an adult, with a full time job (and often family etc.) is making time in their life for piano, they should be studying, playing, and practicing the kind of music that they want to play. I’m not usually the type to recommend instant gratification over delayed results, but in this case, I do. If they want to play pop, they should start with, and practice pop. If they want to play ”new age,” that’s what they should study. And so on.

Whether or not it’s more effective in the long run to start with classical is a debate I’m not keen to get into (although I don’t agree with this actually).

But as someone who started piano at the age of 30 and who has now been playing (and practicing) consistently for over 20 years, one thing I feel confident in saying is that it is essential that adults enjoy the process rather than slog through something they don’t love for some unspecified future date when they will magically be ready to start learning the music they actually started the piano for.

Pick your poison. Play song you don't like as much and get to be an decent pianist through a system like RCM or struggle trying to play pop song you like, but no system to get you to be decent pianist.

So many people struggling trying to go the pop route or whatever route they choose, because there is no systems like there is for classical music. Is there a system like RCM to play pop? I'm pretty sure there isn't.

To be honest, although I like classical music, do you think the baby beginner pieces I learned at the beginning were fun/good? No! Do you think I started playing piano because I loved the baby beginner pieces? No! But I am passionate about playing piano and I still enjoyed my journey. I know going the classical route will get me to play any type of music and be a decent pianist.

In my opinion if you don't go the classical route you will struggle or even may never get to be decent at playing piano.

Everything in life is a matter of chance.
Everyone finds their own way; but perhaps the best one is to join an ensemble or orchestra with semi-professionals (instead of a one-on-one lesson with a teacher). This was the case for me at the age of 15, when I was invited as a violinist to an amateur small big band that played old time swing. Everyone played strictly according to the notes. It turned out that the pianist did not come, and I sat down at the piano and began to read the sheet music, as I often did in piano lessons at the music school. In the end, these notes found their way to the piano sheet music holder - along with Kramer's etudes, preludes and fugues by Bach, etc. I tried to work on all the plays with the same seriousness; at school I received feedback from my teacher on the classical repertoire; in the big band - from the conductor, who was also an arranger, but also from other musicians (brass musicians), with whom after a while began to play gigs and recruit a repertoire.
In those years it was the only practical opportunity to study the field of "light" music leading to restaurant music and jazz; and this discussion just sharpened the perspective of a random mixture of learned skills of playing classical, and 7 years later non-classical piano.

I definitely agree with your main point, that the method matters, but RCM is not the only effective learning approach, and there are many different approaches for learning pop that are very effective. By the same token, there are many ways that people approach learning classical music that are not effective. Again, the type of music isn't what matters, and there is no reason why a person who wants to play pop music can't get there by... practicing, learning, and playing pop music from the very beginning.


This is just not true. If you want to play jazz, you're not going to be able to do that if you only ever study classical music. If you want to be able to comp, improvise, play chord-based pop music from a lead sheet, you're not going to get there by playing classical music. And in fact, if you only ever play from a classical score, you're going to develop a whole set of skills that don't transfer to non-classical styles.

If a classically trained pianist wants to play jazz or pop, they're going to have to learn a new set of skills. They are likely going to be able to acquire those skills more quickly than someone who is a complete beginner, but they still have to learn those skills as a discrete skill set.

If a beginning pianist wants to play pop, jazz or other non-classical styles, they can successfully do that without ever studying classical piano. This is not to say that there's no benefit to studying classical piano, but it's just not true that the only way in is through classical.

I generally don't like to get into these kinds of discussions on PW about this kind of thing, but I think the idea that to learn piano, you have to start with classical, is a myth that intimidates adults and keeps a lot of people from starting piano. Which is really unfortunate.

Non sense.

You cannot improvise and compose without having a base first and I guarantee you the vast majority of jazz pianist are classically trained.

As a matter of fact I just googled a few: Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, Chick Corea, McCoy Tyner, etc....
All classically trained!!!

I am sure there is exception to the rule, but the rule is most professional pianist are classically trained.

Ampersand Sebs first trained with a classical teacher and is still self-studying classical. He want to learn skills not generally taught through the classical route: extensive theory, working and improv through lead sheets etc.

I find your comment that professional jazz musicians first learned classical to not be relevant to adult beginners who will not become professionals. Learn the skills you need to play the music you want to play.

Pro jazz players did not know they would become pros but they all have something in common. Guess what it is? all classically trained!

Whether you want become a pro or not, my point still stands, classical training is the way to go.

If Sebs or others choose not to go the classically trained route, that's cool, it's their journey.

In order to learn to play the music you want to play you need a strong foundation and classically trained is the way to go in most cases.

There is exceptions to the rule but this is the way to go.

Agree to disagree.

You've cited a lot of musicians from several decades ago. What about modern contemporary musicians, any non-classical examples there?

Completely agree.


Definitely will have to agree to disagree.