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I found RC275 to be one of the best sampled and scripted piano VI I've used, but I got tired of its sound and sold it. Oooh, I hope that sale ends soon, since I'm thinking too much about buying their Fazioli or Modern U now. Not a fan of uprights in general, but so many people seems to like it.

Hello,


Listening to R275 examples, I could foresee this happening for myself as well, and that worries me. How would you describe getting tired of it? What aspects made it tiring to you?

Selling licenses to other users isn't always possible with some VSTi issuers, how does that work in the case of VI Labs?

Thank you!

Cheers and happy playing,

HotelZuluPapa 😉

PS Modern U is lovely. I can't see myself getting tired of that one anytime soon. Why? Hard to say... It is so realistic for my piano studying and practising, it never fails to lift my spirit in one way or the other. Hope that experience lasts, up to now, it does 🍾.

I have all of their pianos and I only play the Ravenscroft and sometimes the Modern U. The others have weaknesses that, over time, resulted in not playing them. The Italian (Fazioli) could have been fabulous but they blew it. At first, you will be excited by the great sound... then you experience their weaknesses like bad sustain. Don't bother with the other three pianos.

I favor the Ravenscroft mostly because of the great lower register... I love the big sound. Keep in mind, I have a pretty great replay system with expensive speakers and amplification. However the Modern U shows the company is learning how to record these things and get more out of their efforts. I would love for them to re-do the Fazioli... that has great potential.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

With VI Labs it's easy and quick, but 25$ iLok transfer fee must be paid. Still, good that's possible at all. I have at least 4 piano VIs which I'm not using and never going to use and I cannot sell them (Cinepiano for example).

Regarding Ravenscroft: I got tired of it's boomy bass (I know, it can be tamed by EQ), some phasing issues using Close mics and the sound character in general. Too clean, sterile? I kind of don't feel like I'm playing a piano. Maybe it's because I'm not used to original Ravenscroft grand piano sound (we're all surrounded with Steinways and Yamaha recordings). It's important to mention that I really liked RC275 at the beginning. Also it's a great scripted, consistent and very, very efficient VI.

Hello,

Thank you, @AlphaBravoCharlie!

Your description is consistent with my reservations, so good to know. Also, I am very sensitive to phasing issues (and would want to use those close mics primarily, I assume) and other strange things in finer resonances, the latter I do find in many internal digital piano sounds and VSTi pianos. Almost no such problems in Modern U, one major reason to be so grateful for it.

Again, good to know.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

Yea, the other two are worth their money, especially on sale but for the True Keys bundle I feel that 99$ is about what they are worth in 2021. Personally I really like their sound, but as others said if you really are a good player you will feel their limitations quickly.

The bass of the main presets have been EQ-d with a HP filter (up to 84.35 HZ) and don't feel boomy to me, not even on my rather boomy Sony MDR-1A headphones. On other devices, it sounds a bit bass shy.

I like powerfull grand bass in general, but with RC275 I had impression it's artificially boosted. Like I mentioned and as you @Alex C wrote, it can be tamed by EQ.

I have learned that the higher and lower registers of source material can challenge any replay system. The differences that we hear in the RC275 may be more related to the quality and type of playback systems we have than the actual recordings. Highs, lows, and their dynamics (loudness to softness) are a challenge and one of the biggest reasons playback systems can vary so greatly in price. Higher priced systems just sound better if you have quality source material (most of the time).

So a question: Do you want your VST to compliment your playback system, or do you want a playback system that can accurately play back any VST you may own (warts and all its goodness)?

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Regarding 'playback systems', I own/owned/tested many headphones, starting from chi-fi territory, through typical AKG/Sennheisers models up to some Stax. Focals, MrSpeakers offerings, with various AMP options. Up to certain point going higher in price usually improves the listening experience, but I dare to express opinion that a typical recommended 200$ good pair of headphones is perfectly capable of reproducing all the needed frequencies of the music (or piano sample sound in this case). Not to start speakers discussion. The 'boomy bass' I mentioned is a trait I noticed when comparing RC275 to other piano libraries I own (the number is around 20 now and growing). It can also be measured in any DAW. I don't call it a 'flaw', but exactly like I expressed, a 'trait'. Some might like it, others might not (I do not).

If I understand you correctly, it seems you're suggesting that buying better 'playback system' is going to make a significant difference in perceiving piano VI sound. I dare to disagree as long as someone already has something decent, not 5$ Walmart IEMs or PC stereo speakers. There are so many threads around the internet where people are advised to 'upgrade' their speakers/headphones, amps, DACs, move to 96kHz etc. and spending thousands of hard-earned dollars on something that will make marginal (if any) difference, while the source material (music/samples in this case) is the thing that matters the most.

AlphaBravoCharlie,
I made the same experience and wholeheartedly agree. I went from cheap headphones to AKG K272 to an Adueze LCD-2, than LCD-3 (2000 $), same with amplifiers (unpopular opionen: the make no real substantial difference!). Then I downsized to a Sennheiser HD 650 and AudioQuest Dragonfly and I'm perfectly happy since a few years. Same with speakers: cheap speakers -> Adam A5X -> Harbeth C7ES3 and back down to JBL LSR 305 and I am also happy. Don't let yourself talk into that rabbit hole. It's just an industry trying to make money out of marginal differences some people wouldn't even notice in a double blinded experimental test.

I finally yielded and bought Modern U. Yes, it's good, but I'm not sure if I like it more than Pianoteq's U4 in the latest update, which is surprisingly good (even if you, like me, don't like Pianoteq). It's only a first impression ... Need to play some more ...

I think they are very different in character. The Modern U is extremely clean, I use the U4 usually a little aged so it get's more character. I'll use them both, depending on my mood

Anyone want to share their best sound settings for Modern U?

Hello,


Let's see:

- Mic 1: KM184, 0dB
- Mic 2: PM40, 0dB
- Mic 3: MA200, 0dB (or a little less, to taste)

- Release volume 0dB
- Key noise +6dB
- Silent strike +6dB
- Sympathetic resonance 0dB
- Sympathetic polyphony 40

- Pedal resonance 0dB
- Pedal noise -3dB
- True pedal action On
- Repedal On
- Repetition strikes On

- Stereo width 0%
- Tone 0.0
- Timbre shift 0

- Pedal CCs As required
- Polyphony Def

- Half pedal On, min/max as required
- Soft/Sordino/Muted strikes as required

- Reverb Off (Alt: Wood Room dry 100 wet 10)
- EQ Off

- Midi response Bend -0.21
- Gain response Bend +0.21, Minimum gain 0.00

- Tuning preset Equal temperament with defaults only

- No UVI Workstation effects

- Set the volume in the UVI Multi\Mixer tab as required but no higher than -6dB to prevent clipping distortion.

There you go!

Cheers and happy playing that lovely Modern U,

HZ

I see that VI Labs doesn't use a physical dongle to lock its products, but what does it use?

It uses an iLok license that you can download.

God bless,
David

This might be seen as sacrilege to upright apostles, but right now, I'm loving the cinematic preset the most. Very spacious and the -1 timbre shift almost gives it the tone of a grand piano.

PS: They should do an update of the Ravencroft using these new reverbs.

You will!

Although I don't use it a ton anymore, Pianoteq is a marvel in some ways. With that said, their upright is the only expansion I've ever regretted buying.