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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Saying 3-inch woofer is like saying gigantic miniature.
Or happy depression.
Or garlic donuts.

It's a contradiction.


Search string - “garlic donuts”, top result - says ‘garlic donuts” which turns out to be -

https://ukrainian-recipes.com/pampushky-ukrainian-garlic-bread.html

Pittsburgh PBS-DUQ old cooking shows once mentioned the garlic festival in Erie Penn, which has been shutdown the past few years, but which featured nearly garlic everything including garlic ice cream ..... but no garlic dp .... yet..... meantime, its not time to stop comparing any of the collective attributes within the realm of dp-playing humans’ perceptions - senses - in which one person might feel or see or hear or smell or taste xyz phenom for which they provide a quickie a/v recording but other people do not sense the same, some do or think maybe they do, other people sense something but not sure its the same as OP , but it may be past time for avoiding notice that we humans are similar but never identical , not even “identical twins” are identical, one may want or need or be content with 3.5 inches of woofing, others may have 10 inches and still searching for a better grail ..... whether its by tactile, aural , optical, taste, olfactory or imagination .... often times it is simply different strokes for dp folks 🎹 🙂 .... this here place is loaded with contradictions .... it seems to come with the DP evaluation turf ... woofer on!

Last edited by drewr; 07/23/21 10:32 AM.

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Sebs #3139958 07/23/21 10:56 AM
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All of the monitor speakers discussed here are nearfield monitors. Don't expect any bass out of them. Even with sub-woofers.

Only Mid or far-field monitor speakers can produce voluminous output with enough bass. That's why they exist.

I wouldn't bother purchasing separate subwoofers because you may need to deal with cross-over and positioning etc.

Buy mid-field monitor speakers if you're looking for a hi-fi similar experience.

Last edited by Abdol; 07/23/21 10:59 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
drewr #3139969 07/23/21 11:26 AM
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OK ... I'll take back garlic donuts ( which now begin to seem rather tasty smile ) and shorten the list to just gigantic miniature and happy depression.
Originally Posted by drewr
[quote=]Saying 3-inch woofer is like saying gigantic miniature.
Or happy depression.
Or garlic donuts.

It's a contradiction.
Search string - “garlic donuts”, top result - says ‘garlic donuts” which turns out to be https://ukrainian-recipes.com/pampushky-ukrainian-garlic-bread.html[/quote]

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
OK ... I'll take back garlic donuts ( which now begin to seem rather tasty smile ) and shorten the list to just gigantic miniature and happy depression.
Originally Posted by drewr
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Saying 3-inch woofer is like saying gigantic miniature.
Or happy depression.
Or garlic donuts.

It's a contradiction.
Search string - “garlic donuts”, top result - says ‘garlic donuts” which turns out to be https://ukrainian-recipes.com/pampushky-ukrainian-garlic-bread.html...
hmmm, I dunno... 'bout some copper donuts? anyone?
[Linked Image]

Last edited by josh_sounds; 07/24/21 04:49 PM.

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Sebs #3140239 07/24/21 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
All of the monitor speakers discussed here are nearfield monitors. Don't expect any bass out of them. Even with sub-woofers.

Only Mid or far-field monitor speakers can produce voluminous output with enough bass. That's why they exist.
All of this is incorrect. The studio subwoofer I use, JBL LSR2310sp rolls off to -3dB at 27Hz. Can you even find a PA (farfield) subwoofer that goes anywhere near that low?


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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Abdol
All of the monitor speakers discussed here are nearfield monitors. Don't expect any bass out of them. Even with sub-woofers.

Only Mid or far-field monitor speakers can produce voluminous output with enough bass. That's why they exist.
All of this is incorrect. The studio subwoofer I use, JBL LSR2310sp rolls off to -3dB at 27Hz. Can you even find a PA (farfield) subwoofer that goes anywhere near that low?


I agree with Sweelinck. In fact, I think the opposite can be far more the case. Think of headphones, the ultimate nearfield monitors, that can produce the deepest, undistorted bass. For good, powerful bass reproduction, it is not just the membrane area that counts, but also the stroke of the membrane and the distance to the ear. Because in principle bass reproduction and intensity depends on the volume of air moved in relation to the distance which is also relevant because the distance-square law applies to spherical waves for geometric reasons.

Last edited by Kammerklang; 07/24/21 08:18 PM.
Sebs #3140285 07/24/21 09:17 PM
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Why does nobody mention the acoustic impedance match?

Sebs #3140331 07/25/21 03:21 AM
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I know impedance between the DP output jack and the studio monitor input jack should match so there are no 'power losses'. That is in terms of electronics.

Acoustic Impedance? I dunno MacMacMac, what's that? Is it matching the size of the room to the output power of the studio monitors?


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Sebs #3140341 07/25/21 04:54 AM
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There was a post earlier about ignoring the tech babble and just go for what sounds good.?
I don't know much about all the specs of speakers, I can say though, that I'm happy with my HS5's.

I've had them for years, use them for mixing and with my stage piano.

Maybe it's just what I'm used to, though?!

I'd recommend holding off on the sub and if it's something you feel you need, then add later.

Last edited by xDom; 07/25/21 04:55 AM.
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Just as electrical impedance matching refers to coupling energy from an amplifier to a load, acoustic impedance matching is about energy coupling from a speaker to the surrounding air.

It's why a piano string sounds loud when coupled through the piano soundboard, yet seems nearly inaudible without the soundboard. It's all about coupling.

It's a subject conspicuously absent from this and similar discussions. When there's so much spec-talk going on, why exclude this crucial element?

But as xDom points out ... technobabble is useless. "Just go for what sounds good."
Originally Posted by josh_sounds
I know impedance between the DP output jack and the studio monitor input jack should match so there are no 'power losses'. That is in terms of electronics.

Acoustic Impedance? I dunno MacMacMac, what's that? Is it matching the size of the room to the output power of the studio monitors?

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Why does nobody mention the acoustic impedance match?

This is a relevant question ... IMHO!. Part of the answer may be that the ancient technology of coupling sound energy via soundboard of an AP to the human ear began centuries before an electric analog version (with attendant formulas and theories and Watts, Coulombs, Henrys, Farads, Maxwells et. al.) came along, which was many years before an electric digital substitute was animated into existence.

During my electronics tech days in the late 70’s, the simple formula held that an ideal impedance match between source and load resulted when source and load had the same impedance..... how often do DP enthusiasts know the output impedance of their headphone amp ? (trick question ) . At that time, the typical examples of S & L were output stage amp coupled to speakers, and transmitter output to antenna for RF “radio” apps AND while digital electronics existed, these old specimen examples were based upon analog apps. Unless i remember incorrectly, this ideal match axiom was 50 percent efficient ...... IE. effectively akin to peeing in the cornflakes of staunch modern day go-green advocates 🙂 .... i wonder how efficient the best AP designs are in coupling the human energy applied to the action & pedals to nearby ears .... who knows, maybe some of the classic AP great players that still live on in memory here were at times given to bouts of what passed for GAS in that era, debating via their form of “techno babble” while chasing down the, ostensibly, best hand/foot-cranked AP tech available?


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Sebs #3140459 07/25/21 03:49 PM
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Acoustic impedance mismatch is analogous to, but different from electrical impedance mismatch. Acoustic impedance mismatch is largely a speaker efficiency issue. This is explained in the intro of the following article, which also explains the design of horn speakers.

https://www.grc.com/acoustics/An-Introduction-to-Horn-Theory.pdf


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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Abdol
All of the monitor speakers discussed here are nearfield monitors. Don't expect any bass out of them. Even with sub-woofers.

Only Mid or far-field monitor speakers can produce voluminous output with enough bass. That's why they exist.
All of this is incorrect. The studio subwoofer I use, JBL LSR2310sp rolls off to -3dB at 27Hz. Can you even find a PA (farfield) subwoofer that goes anywhere near that low?

Even the KRK Rokit 10-3 midfields with 10" woofers apparently are -3dB at only 31Hz. From: https://www.prosoundnetwork.com/gea...red-10-3-mid-field-3-way-studio-monitors

Quote
Frequency response is 31 Hz to 20 kHz (+/- 3 dB) with some tasty peaks and valleys; 100 to 250 Hz gets a notable bump, while a fairly flat dip runs between 750 Hz and 3 kHz.


Primary keyboard interests: Early baroque through early romantic repertoire, blues improvisation.
Sebs #3141403 07/28/21 09:23 PM
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Well after a ton of reading, talks to my sales rep, this discussion I finally placed an order today and went with the Focal Shape Twin. While I'm no pro and could I have used HS5, I knew if I did that I'd be coming back to the ones I first wanted. And it doesn't matter what level I am I can still appreciate and enjoy these for many years to come no matter what!

Thanks for all the help and support. I will report back once I have it all set up.

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Neat. You’re the third person on this forum I can think of recently who probably listens to their DP on more expensive speakers than the piano itself…(what is your DP again, I forgot!)

Please post back and let us know what you think of them, after you’ve had some time to play around.


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Sebs #3141411 07/28/21 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sebs
Well after a ton of reading, talks to my sales rep, this discussion I finally placed an order today and went with the Focal Shape Twin. While I'm no pro and could I have used HS5, I knew if I did that I'd be coming back to the ones I first wanted. And it doesn't matter what level I am I can still appreciate and enjoy these for many years to come no matter what!

Thanks for all the help and support. I will report back once I have it all set up.


I’ve listened to the Twins extensively, a wonderful sounding speaker.

Sebs #3141484 07/29/21 06:40 AM
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Wow, just Wow!
Love that double passive radiator! Congrats on your purchase!
[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Neat. You’re the third person on this forum I can think of recently who probably listens to their DP on more expensive speakers than the piano itself…(what is your DP again, I forgot!)

Please post back and let us know what you think of them, after you’ve had some time to play around.

I just moved and unpacking and they arrived today. Im working on setting them up just to hear from my macbook for now until I get the piano hooked up. The set of speakers are about same price as my Nord Stage 3. I did a lot digging, and read if budget permits, do not cheap out on speakers.


Originally Posted by emenelton
Originally Posted by Sebs
Well after a ton of reading, talks to my sales rep, this discussion I finally placed an order today and went with the Focal Shape Twin. While I'm no pro and could I have used HS5, I knew if I did that I'd be coming back to the ones I first wanted. And it doesn't matter what level I am I can still appreciate and enjoy these for many years to come no matter what!

Thanks for all the help and support. I will report back once I have it all set up.


I’ve listened to the Twins extensively, a wonderful sounding speaker.

Happy to hear that. I was reading on other forums all over and people were saying when they would listen to recorded music they heard nuances they never heard before. Point being they said they loved them even for casual listening to music.


Originally Posted by josh_sounds
Wow, just Wow!
Love that double passive radiator! Congrats on your purchase!
[Linked Image]

Thank you! And really what got me looking at the Shape even before I did research was the style and finish. Then I did some reading and was sold.

Sebs #3152862 09/03/21 09:04 PM
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Was re-reading some recent threads and upon remembering yours i also remembered that i forgot to look up the Focal Shape Twin literature, which i have now looked over.

Have you had time to get yours set up and starting to burn in? If i recall correctly you intended to use these with a Nord S3 and possibly other audio/entertainment gear. How has this worked out thus far?


- Kawai MP7 and LSR308 monitors
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