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Cutec #3141662 07/29/21 07:07 PM
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No Don is right. Even my CA79 does not really need VSTs. They are fun to fool around with thought.

Plus if you go that direction, you will never get that great action you love from those Hybrids.

If money is no object, that is the closest you get to an acoustic piano.

Ron

Cutec #3141677 07/29/21 07:41 PM
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Save for the hybrids I have yet to hear a digital piano that would not benefit from a virtual instrument.

But if you're set on buying a hybrid ... just live with it a while. You might like it, and you might not feel any need for a virtual instrument.

Cutec #3141684 07/29/21 08:10 PM
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I feel like the OP's approach was very logical and sound, especially with making a first impression then going back to test it. Also, very nice and sensible taste. smile

I have a Kawai CS-11 (polished ebony cabinet, good wooden action but not fully authentic.) I'd love a hybrid with real escapement but it's hard to justify the cost (since I have something nice already.) The CS-11 plays better than 90% of the pianos I've had a chance to play, since it's not that often I play a fancy piano, and less often that the fancy piano is in perfect regulation. Playing in a piano store makes it a tough comparison because all the acoustics should be in their best form, so you're comparing against the best.

Oh, let me share this: what you hear in the store from the speakers and soundboard WILL BE DIFFERENT than what you hear in your own space. The soundboard and speakers in my CS-11 sounded incredible in the big, open piano store, but honestly sounds kind of 'just OK' in my home - was in a carpeted living room, now a large bedroom with hard floors, but always near a wall, which really affects it.

Aesthetic was and still is important to me. I feel special when I sit down at a nice piano, like it's a gift (which it is!). On-board sound was less-so since I knew I could, and probably would, change it. If I was doing it over, I'd be curious about a DP with maybe more or bigger speakers, or at least with Kawai's new electronics which are provided by Onkyo, a high-end Japanese audio electronics company.

Last edited by Joe Garfield; 07/29/21 08:19 PM.
Cutec #3141696 07/29/21 08:55 PM
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Suggestion: since you also have an ES920, replace the CN37 with an acoustic, not another digital.

Cutec #3141745 07/30/21 05:22 AM
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Sweelinck. Did think about an acoustic but like most people worry about the ongoing costs of tuning and regulation. Also worry, living in a terraced house, the loudness aspect re neighbour's. Very impressed with Kawai k200 acoustic and would probably go for a k300. Is a hybrid as good? I don't know

Cutec #3141757 07/30/21 06:58 AM
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Cutec, I know this is off topic, but I am curious.

I know you said you tried the K200. Did you also try the 300 and if so, what differences did you notice.

Ron

Cutec #3141786 07/30/21 08:55 AM
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The K300 has more to offer in terms of tone and the bass register, however most tend also to be a bit more energetic, dynamically speaking. Could be a problem if you’re trying to minimize noise.


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Cutec #3141795 07/30/21 09:41 AM
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Ron. My intention was to try the k300, none available.
Presume like said before,that extra energy could present a problem noise and neighbors wise

Cutec #3141854 07/30/21 11:51 AM
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OT, re virtual pianos I personally have some reservations.

Firstly, it's no real "plug and play". One may need to buy a new laptop (I for example don't have and don't otherwise need any, so it would add straight to the cost). Alternatives like the Dexibell hardware (which might be "plug and play", more or less) are not far from £1,000, also added to the instrument's cost.

Secondly, it seems to this reader that these virtual pianos cause a huge amount of time used (or being lost) trying to maximise their performance, with many users buying several of them and tinkering with them for what must be a serious amount of time and, more worryingly, seemingly no one (or almost no one) being happy with the software in its standard form, "before tinkering". It does, if you ask me, tend to cause addiction, the chasing of the rainbow of "that perfect sound" that is never achieved as one keeps chasing and buying more virtual instruments...

It is certainly fun for software geeks and perfectionists. But for people who are not proficient in these things - and/or simply want to get better at playing the piano - it is probably better to buy a digital piano with a sound one likes on day one, and then focus on improving one's skills.

Just my two cents of course. However, I am personally tending towards the "must work without virtual piano" route..

Thanks

Omobono


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Omobono #3141866 07/30/21 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Omobono
It is certainly fun for software geeks and perfectionists. But for people who are not proficient in these things - and/or simply want to get better at playing the piano - it is probably better to buy a digital piano with a sound one likes on day one, and then focus on improving one's skills.

Just my two cents of course. However, I am personally tending towards the "must work without virtual piano" route..

What you say about VSTs not being plug and play is definitely true. They need at least a minimal amount of technical effort and know-how to set up. But if you find the tone and responsiveness to your liking, they can be well worth the effort.

After the initial setup, tweaking and troubleshooting, my dedicated VST machine just stays on 24/7, silently, waiting to be played. It's at the point where it is literally just turn-on-DP-and-play, and the startup process is even faster than the native sound engine because the DP starts transmitting MIDI a few seconds after bootup smile

I haven't touched it in nearly a month (actually, longer since I just had to turn it back on after a blackout).

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Omobono #3141900 07/30/21 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Omobono
OT, re virtual pianos I personally have some reservations.

Firstly, it's no real "plug and play". One may need to buy a new laptop (I for example don't have and don't otherwise need any, so it would add straight to the cost). Alternatives like the Dexibell hardware (which might be "plug and play", more or less) are not far from £1,000, also added to the instrument's cost.

Secondly, it seems to this reader that these virtual pianos cause a huge amount of time used (or being lost) trying to maximise their performance, with many users buying several of them and tinkering with them for what must be a serious amount of time and, more worryingly, seemingly no one (or almost no one) being happy with the software in its standard form, "before tinkering". It does, if you ask me, tend to cause addiction, the chasing of the rainbow of "that perfect sound" that is never achieved as one keeps chasing and buying more virtual instruments...

It is certainly fun for software geeks and perfectionists. But for people who are not proficient in these things - and/or simply want to get better at playing the piano - it is probably better to buy a digital piano with a sound one likes on day one, and then focus on improving one's skills.

Just my two cents of course. However, I am personally tending towards the "must work without virtual piano" route..

Thanks

Omobono

You are right but as with Gombessa, I too have hit that happy spot and don't even need to switch it on to play.
It all remains on, for me to sit behind and play immediately.
It can be a long and winding road, dry, sometimes horrible.
But what a prize when you actually win it!
.


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Cutec #3141947 07/30/21 04:30 PM
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I am also a VST convert. What I enjoy the most is being able to play so many different instruments with just one controller and a PC, depending on the mood, the piece or both things.

Yesterday I played the UVI F Grand and it was a truly enjoyable experience. Today, I will probably play first an upright (VI Labs Modern U or perhaps some Native Instruments offering) and could end with the magnificent VSL Bösendorfer Imperial or 280VC. And so on.

Something just a few years ago was impossible. We live on a great time for piano playing!


Yamaha U3H
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...plus some other DPs, synths, controllers and VSTs

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Cutec #3142079 07/31/21 07:41 AM
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Did you not find the ca99 superior to the ca79 with its wooden soundboard and additional 35 watts. It would have been a similar experience to the Nv5s surely?

Cutec #3142409 08/01/21 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cutec
Sweelinck. Did think about an acoustic but like most people worry about the ongoing costs of tuning and regulation. Also worry, living in a terraced house, the loudness aspect re neighbour's. Very impressed with Kawai k200 acoustic and would probably go for a k300. Is a hybrid as good? I don't know
You do need to get an acoustic piano tuned, but regulation is not much of an expense for a piano used in a home. A hybrid likely requires a similar amount of regulation as an acoustic, which again is to say not much.

A hybrid can offer a grand action with an upright footprint. An acoustic upright gives you an acoustic piano with an upright footprint. Both make compromises. You can place an acoustic absorbing block between soundboard and wall and don't place an upright along a wall that divides two units. This may be enough to play during waking hours, with the ES920 available for late hours or when quiet is imperative at other times.

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