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pghvol Offline OP
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I have a question about a used Kawai KDP110 digital piano I purchased last week. Whenever a key is pressed -- and it seems to occur with every key, though some more than others -- there is a fairly loud humming noise over the top of the played note. It has a sort of metallic character to it, though I'm unsure if the source is physical (something resonating where it shouldn't) or electronic. The effect of this noise superimposed over the notes is very unpleasant to my ears. I'll post a recording of the sound here. It's pretty poor quality unfortunately, but I think you can make out noise in question, particularly around the 9-10 & 22-23 sec marks.

https://vimeo.com/577841140

Unfortunately I am a complete beginner with zero piano experience, so I have no idea whether this sound is:
A) Normal for any piano (digital or otherwise). That is, maybe they all sound that way if you clumsily mash individual keys - it's just normal/desired resonance and the effect is more seamless when playing fluidly. Or maybe it doesn't even sound that bad in isolation, and it's my ears that are the problem. I tried moving the piano around, setting it at different angles, and even into different rooms without any success. What makes me think it's not normal is that I don't hear the offending tone at all through headphones or external speakers - the piano sounds beautiful, crystal-clear - and I also don't remember noticing it on any other piano I've tried.
B) Normal for the KDP110 model specifically. As mentioned, I don't notice any issues through the headphone out, so perhaps it's just subpar internal speakers?
C) Abnormal, indicative of a defect in this particular piano. Thinking something might be loose and vibrating, I tried pressing on various points along the case, incl. speakers, case, lid, etc., but was unable to alter the effect.

As a used piano there is no warranty coverage, but returns are free (incl. shipping) so it's not a big deal to send this one back. I'm mostly hoping to figure out whether I will run into the same issue again if I buy another KDP110. I tried this model - among many others - at my local dealer before buying and I certainly don't recall hearing this, but it could be I just missed it. Maybe I'd be better served splitting my budget into a cheaper model plus studio monitors? Hoping to receive some feedback from you experienced folks.

Thanks for reading!

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It does sound like something is resonating slightly.

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i don't hear anything unusual. (There are some short dropouts, but that's probably my own Internet connection and CPU acting up.)

. . . How were you recording the sound?

Thanks --


. Charles
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I also don't hear anything unusual. Every key has a sustain that hold out when there's no damper applied.
If in doubt I would recommend download the pianoteq demo and try to hear the sounds of different pianos there. You will hear very similar when holding down a key until the end of sustain there


[Kawai VPC1 / ES100 & Casio CT-S1 - VSTs: Boesendorfer 280VC (VSL), C. Bechstein (PT7+) & HB Steinway D, Steingraeber, Bluethner & K2 (PT8.2.0+) - Ableton Live Lite - Presonus iOne / iTwo - Sennheiser HD6xx - iloud micro monitors]
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I think I can hear something resonating. My acoustic upright makes noises like this now and then and it is sometimes difficult to locate the source.

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Quote
. . . Whenever a key is pressed -- and it seems to occur with every key, though some more than others -- there is a fairly loud humming noise over the top of the played note. It has a sort of metallic character to it, though I'm unsure if the source is physical (something resonating where it shouldn't) or electronic. The effect of this noise superimposed over the notes is very unpleasant to my ears.

I didn't hear anything peculiar, but my hearing is badly compromised above 4 kHz or so. Why do some people hear something funny,, and others don't?

So here's an idea:

All the strings in the top octave of the piano (sometimes more than the top octave) are _undamped_. They are free to resonate with the overtones of lower-pitched notes.

If you play an acoustic piano, striking keys in the lowest two octaves staccato, and listen carefully, you'll often find that some notes ring, fairly loudly, after you've let the damper fall. The ringing isn't at the pitch of the key you struck, but at a much higher pitch. You might hear that as "metallic".

What's happening is that the overtones of the note you struck, excited one of the undamped strings, and that _undamped_ string is ringing.

. . . This is expected behavior, although people don't mention it often.

Your Kawai has a "sample-based" sound generator. That is, somebody recorded the sounds of a _real_ (acoustic) piano, and when you strike a key, the DP plays back the recording. (It's more complicated than that, but we only need the basic principle here.)

. . . If that original acoustic piano had a key with a sustained resonance,
. . . that "ringing" will be captured in the sample.

. . . And when you strike that key on your DP, the "ringing" will be
. . . faithfully reproduced.

I've tested earlier versions of Pianoteq (which is "model-based", not "sample-based"), and sure enough, it's faithful to that behavior:

. . . Some bass notes have sustained (but faint) ringing in the high treble.

When the stars line up right (or wrong), and a bass or mid-range string has a strong harmonic that matches the pitch of one of the un-damped high strings, that string is going to sing, un-damped.

I don't know if that's what you're hearing, or not. I don't have your ears, and I might be deaf to a sound that's really present.


. Charles
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It's difficult to tell if there is actually an issue with the instrument from this recording. It could be an object resonating in the room, or part of the KDP's cabinet vibrating, a faulty speaker etc.

Try moving the position of the KDP to see if this improves/worsens the situation.

If you have an opportunity to visit a Kawai dealer and listen to a new KDP or other Kawai digital piano, this will perhaps give you a better idea if there is a problem with your piano.

Kind regards,
James
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pghvol Offline OP
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Huge thank you to everyone who took the time to listen. As it turns out, last night I found a CA48 for sale locally and was able to get it for just $50 more than I paid for the KDP110! Whatever it was that bothered me about that 110's sound is entirely absent from the CA48, so I'm super happy right now. smile

Edit: I would edit my original post to show the issue as moot, but apparently the edit option is time-limited.

Last edited by pghvol; 07/23/21 04:14 PM.
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Congrats!

CA48 for a $50 more than a KDP110 is a fantastic deal!

Cheers,
James
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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