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Does anyone have any experience with a Kawai digital piano CE220? The middle pedal is supposed to be Sostenuto. But recently when the teacher wanted to each the boys how to use it, we discovered that it does not work at all. My son recalled that it has worked once upon a time. Although I'm not sure if he knew how it was supposed to work before. It may have not been working all along. But it's clearly in the user manual. So we know it is supposed to have it. Does anyone know how to fix this?

We've had the piano for 8 years. it has worked very well for us in all respect, taking my sons through many years of the RCM certificate programs. My older is currently on level 9 and the younger on level 6. Both has done exceptionally well through the years. But there is one nagging limitation. The sustain pedal which has only 3 levels (Full off, full on, half on) is becoming limiting. Maybe it's time to move on to an acoustic baby grand? But it'll will be nice to fix the Sostenuto pedal still.

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It's impossible to say for sure but it can be just a connector problem. An electronics savvy person should take a look.

And many digital pianos do have a continuous sustain pedal with finer gradations instead of the three levels. Modern Kawais for example function like an acoustic grand in that sense and the pedals are even supposed to feel authentic. More or less...

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He's referring to the middle pedal (sostenuto), not the right pedal (sustain).
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
And many digital pianos do have a continuous sustain pedal with finer gradations instead of the three levels.

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Sustain pedal was mentioned as a second issue.

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
And many digital pianos do have a continuous sustain pedal with finer gradations instead of the three levels. Modern Kawais for example function like an acoustic grand in that sense and the pedals are even supposed to feel authentic. More or less...

Could you give me examples of digital piano with continuous sustain/damper pedal? Kawai CA99's "Grand Feel Pedal System" offers adjustibility to half-pedal sensitivity. I'm not sure if this is the same thing.

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I'd assume these days the list of digital pianos with continuous sustain pedals would be a long one.

I'd assume all Kawais to have a one. My old ES100 has and it was replaced by the ES110 years ago.

Roland has mentioned that feature in their specifications for years now.

I'd say if you are looking at new digital pianos, focus on other features first and then check the sustain pedal behavour of the interesting models remaining on your list to consider.

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Originally Posted by emilygea
Could you give me examples of digital piano with continuous sustain/damper pedal? Kawai CA99's "Grand Feel Pedal System" offers adjustibility to half-pedal sensitivity. I'm not sure if this is the same thing.

Two I know of for sure because I own them: ES8 and RD2000.


I think this feature is pretty standard these days, at least in the instruments of good manufacturers (I am thinking of Kawai, Roland, Yamaha, Korg, Casio, Kurzweil and also Nord and Dexibell, though I cannot say for sure they all implement it in their DPs or others do not) even in some of the "low" end models. The only low end one that does not have it is Roland FP10 (FP30 does); FP10 implements an three step solution, kind of pedal pressed, half pressed, released, instead of continuous, but I think this was more a marketing than a technical decision.

Last edited by EVC2017; 07/17/21 06:08 AM.

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Just how continuous is continuous? Does that mean all 127 MIDI values? Or does it have to be more than 0 and 127?

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For the benefit of anyone - to include myself - who has seen this relatively new buzzword pop up but does not understand the meaning or purpose, what is “continuous sustain” , why might it be a desirable feature to use with piano and would somebody please provide a reference to a player demonstrating what it looks like and sounds like in action? At face value, the term appears to say “constant muddiness piano feature”. 😐

Thank you.


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I’ve had a real sostenuto pedal on my last two acoustic grands. And other than occasionally trying them out I’ve never used them.

So I’m interested in finding any players out there who use the sostenuto and would be devastated to play a world-class concert grand from the late 1800s that only had two pedals?

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Instead of "constant muddiness" you can better control the amount of "muddiness" if there are more than three levels of it.

..or just the length of the sustain. But actually the muddiness aspect makes sense too.

It can be useful. That's how real grands work. A more advanced piano student benefits from having it in a digital substitute of a grand.

I'm sure there's a Graham Fitch video somewhere on YouTube talking about it in a Steinway showroom.

I don't play classical. I haven't had much actual training from a teacher but even I have experimented with it.

And if my (digital) piano has a sostenuto pedal (as it does) I'd like it to work too (as mine does).

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With respect to emilygea’s 2 sons and nagging limitation at their current level of study, they want more sustain control than off or on or 1/2 .... and for those DPs that support more its called “continuous”.... yes? (and no, i do not require or expect to see “imho yes” or “no” 😉


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Hello,

Yes, 'continuous' in this contex means a smooth gradient of values produced by the sustain pedal, in MIDI terms 0 through 127.

The pedal itself divides an input voltage (either through a potentiometer or an optical sensor circuit) depending on the pedal's position between full up and full down, and thus provides a smoothly varying analogue signal. An ADC (analogue to digital converter) then produces the range of values that the digital piano and/or software works with.

In an acoustic piano, as you release the sustain pedal in very subtle moves (which requires skill!), the dampers start just-touching the strings and as the touch becomes stronger, the damping increases and sustain length shortens. A continuous pedal plus ADC plus good software implementation should be able to give a good simulation of this real-world sustain behavior.

Cheers and happy pedaling,

HZ

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Hello,

As for sostenuto: my mother still owns a (fully functional) digital Roland 'home piano' from the early '90s which features a middle pedal, and it produces sostenuto just fine!

I believe it is one of the top models of that era.

Cheers and happy pedaling,

HZ

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Thank you for this explanation HZPiano.

That is helpful and informative 🙂

er, um, IMHO!


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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
I'm sure there's a Graham Fitch video somewhere on YouTube talking about it in a Steinway showroom.

Graham Fitch, Advanced Piano Pedalling Techniques among a number of videos on pedals lhttps://youtu.be/LzNElOuakkI

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Hello,

Originally Posted by drewr
Thank you for this explanation HZPiano.

That is helpful and informative 🙂

er, um, IMHO!

Definitely only IYHO, of course.

😄

HZ

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And happy continuous-pedalling? 😉

As for terminology I remember Roland mentioning "capable of continuous detection" or something like that.

I don't think e.g. Kawai and Yamaha do specifically mention that it's "continuous" as opposed to having e.g. three steps only.

So some detective work can be required. But like said, I wouldn't worry about Kawai models.

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Hello,

Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
And happy continuous-pedalling? 😉

Oh boy! I totally forgot that! Thanks for your spot-on edit 😄.

Cheers and happy... euhh... continuity,

HZ

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Just an update about of sostenuto pedal.

Pedal replacement for CE220 from Kawai cost $144 plus shipping.

HB also found a video where this guy swapped out his triple-pedal assembly with the one in F-350. F-350 cost $77. F-350 is for ES110/100. So the wooded mount wouldn't work on CE220.

At the same time, we found a open-box F-350 at a local music store; cost $20.

So, we decided to start with the option with the lowest cost. We order it few days ago and they emailed us today that it's ready for pick up. The swap was really easy. Just like in the video, the assembly matched screw for screw. The cable/connector assembly also looks identical. And after 6 screws... tada... we have a working sostenuto pedal! Other pedals work as before.


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