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Originally Posted by riverside96
Im currently practicing on an old keyboard withought weighted keys, its awful & im not starting to think i might be better off not taking the plunge when i was really quite looking forward to getting myself something of real quality.


To be blunt:
I believe that some people here are overly dramatic. Keep in mind, that forums like these are like putting the product under a microscope. Very similar to forums like Head-Fi, where people argue the tiniest, must subtle differences in sound and make them appear to be big deals (when most people aren't even capable of perceiving them).

Many of the points of critique can be remedied by:
a) letting a pro regulate the action, might cost a pretty penny but it is possible, see Ravenworks VPC.
b) many of the issues only affect very, very skilled people.

For beginners, the VPC, or if you prefer a lighter action, the MP11 is just fine. heck, people are GIGGING with these instruments, you know? Real playing for real audiences.

Personally, there are only 2 points I agree with:
1) The VPCs action is heavy. Be sure you like that / can cope with it.
2) The VPCs pedal unit is crap and cannot be upgraded separately (DIY Hall sensor solutions excluded).
If at all possible, i would spring for an MP11SE. Optical pedals + internal sounds can be handy at times, when you don't want to power on your PC to start the VST.

Last edited by Granyala; 02/05/20 04:49 AM.

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Originally Posted by Granyala
I believe that some people here are overly dramatic.


This.

James
x


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3 years ago I purchased a VPC based entirely on hearsay from other users. I've been playing pianos and keyboards as an avid amateur for over 65 years and certainly have laid my fingers on some of the most horrific keybeds imaginable. Perhaps I got lucky but it's been the very best playing experience of my long life. Never able to afford a good grand piano but played several owned by others I longed for the smooth even feel from top to bottom those pianos delivered. It came with my VPC. I have not experienced uneven note control or problems with the pedals. The half pedaling works great for me and it plays the softest of any piano I ever owned. I have several "other" keyboards within a similar price range but so far, for me, VPC is the one I spend most of time with.

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this has made me somewhat more confident. I will likely be looking for a used one & so reliability is more of an issue. Ive been told to get myself something more budget for the time being but i feel as though a VPC or an MP11 could potentially last me a long time & if i can get one for a good price i dont see any reason to wait.

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Originally Posted by butchkoch
3 years ago I purchased a VPC based entirely on hearsay from other users. I've been playing pianos and keyboards as an avid amateur for over 65 years and certainly have laid my fingers on some of the most horrific keybeds imaginable. Perhaps I got lucky but it's been the very best playing experience of my long life. Never able to afford a good grand piano but played several owned by others I longed for the smooth even feel from top to bottom those pianos delivered. It came with my VPC. I have not experienced uneven note control or problems with the pedals. The half pedaling works great for me and it plays the softest of any piano I ever owned. I have several "other" keyboards within a similar price range but so far, for me, VPC is the one I spend most of time with.

Agree, I enjoy in RM3 action and clean looks of VPC, quiet and top quality. Some people think it is heavy but for me its not, but this is subjective perception so ok. Some problems with pedal comes after years and years of using, like squeaking sounds and partially lost precision. In either way with little self effort it is reparable with nothing except your hands, some lubricant gel and screwdriver. If anything dies in there (that can happened with every piano) second option is to just buy another pedal and everyone can have a piece for years. Of course, it would be better with more quality pedal as I said before, and for me in version VPC2 if they put only new optical pedal it is enough.

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Kawai will be probably release VPC2 together with MP12. In this way Kawai will be finished with old actions together at once (RM3 and GF1) and only question is which action they will put in VPC and MP12 ? In MP12 probably new GF3 but in VPC2 probably GFC or maybe GF2 (GF3? wow !) if they decide to use the same case for VPC and MP series.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Granyala
I believe that some people here are overly dramatic.


This.

James
x


Oh yes, it's so important to remember this. many of us that posters spend hours waxing and bashing, but 1) we're the tiny percentage of people who actually cares enough to do so (most people have no issues at all), and 2) we're often focusing on the tiny details that differentiate between products that all serve the general playing population well enough already.

It's good to step out of the echo chamber and see ourselves for who we are sometimes smile


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Originally Posted by Vkk
Originally Posted by Kawai James
[quote=R111]
However, by now, I believe most consumers interested in virtual piano software will already be familiar with the VPC1, and aware of Kawai's reputation, to the point where a traditional demonstration is perhaps no longer necessary.

Still, it would be useful if more brick and mortar Kawai dealers (especially those in the US...) had a VPC1 on the floor to allow customers to play-test the action, and perhaps even bring their own laptop (running their favourite VI) to connect-up and try.

Kind regards,
James
x


When I was in the market recently I was really tempted by the VPC-1. As an engineer it's simplicity, elegance, and focus on function was very appealing. However I decided to go with the Yamaha P515 mainly because of the pedal issue. I'm very happy with my decision. I know people might slight me on that being such a factor, but as someone starting out it's impossible for me to gauge how much something will mean to me down the line. Also, the local Kawai dealer in Seattle had not even heard of the VPC-1 let alone have one on the floor to demo. The yamaha was just a much easier path for someone starting out to a solution that works all around. I do hope the VPC-2 is on Kawai's radar because it would definitely be an upgrade path for me. But just with my example, Kawai lost a customer to yamaha they might have had with the VPC-2 and there's new people entering the market every year that are more computer savvy have little room and would love something like the VPC-2 even if they are not seasoned pianists.



Vkk you described it well. I am one of those folks now entering the market toward a long term upgrade and would have loved to see a VPC-2. I would have purchased something like that in a heartbeat, however I am now also looking at a Yamaha P515.

Pity because the VPC-1 is getting there in age. I liked Kawai James response to your post. That guy has class.

Anyway still torn with my decision and looking purely to trigger VST's thus want the best velocity settings etc. but want a better action......I think there are more folks out there in the new computer, especially laptop camp and as piano libraries become even more expressive and cpu power and ram becomes even more cost efficient I can see much room for opportunity in the Weighted Piano Controller high quality market that would like to see the VPC-2.

Count me as a potential buyer but now looking at other options. Yes we are spoilt but technology keeps evolving and I have not really found a decent piano 88 weighted controller with the feel or quality of MP11SE action:)

STMICHAELS.



Last edited by STMICHAELS; 02/16/20 01:08 AM.
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I consider the MP11se for the longer keys and updated pedals. But I am waiting for the already released features to trickle down, mainly upgraded keys (to resolve slipping PTFE) and newer sounds. With the MP12, I would probably build and paint a simple metal, plastic or wood cover to mimic the VPC style

I like the VPC1, but would like to see more modern parts trickle down. I play chords deep into black keys to prevent wrist twisting, so a longer pivot point might make playing ever so slightly easier long-term.

I found the MP11 & VPC1 actions both very enjoyable when I tried them side by side, so this post really is splitting hairs. But at these prices and given that Kawai has been selling updated parts for a while, I think these pianos are due for much needed upgrades.

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Originally Posted by STMICHAELS
I liked Kawai James response to your post. That guy has class.


Thank you!

Cheers,
James
x


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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Personally, I would love to see the VPC1 updated, and for the range to also be expanded with more models. However, contrary to popular belief, I do not make all of the decisions at Kawai.

So… whom and where can we pester to bump your level so that you can change this? :-)

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The only thing i want is a better triple pedal unit. The F-30 is garbage and makes me avoid playing the VPC1 since it's the only choice for half pedaling.


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I suppose the market is too tiny. People either buy full console pianos with sound if they want a classical piano or they get a synth/controller (a normal one with sliders and knobs) for music production.

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Hello,

Originally Posted by Parishrut
I suppose the market is too tiny. People either buy full console pianos with sound if they want a classical piano or they get a synth/controller (a normal one with sliders and knobs) for music production.

The reality is a lot more nuanced than this. Even just this forum is living proof of the many colors, flavors, shades and grades of the many different 'solutions' that piano players are creating for themselves.

And the VPC1 appears to take center stage in more than a few of those solutions.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello,

Originally Posted by Parishrut
I suppose the market is too tiny. People either buy full console pianos with sound if they want a classical piano or they get a synth/controller (a normal one with sliders and knobs) for music production.

The reality is a lot more nuanced than this. Even just this forum is living proof of the many colors, flavors, shades and grades of the many different 'solutions' that piano players are creating for themselves.

And the VPC1 appears to take center stage in more than a few of those solutions.

Exactly! I was looking for a DP that is most like an acoustic piano and still in my price range. And I am so, so happy with my VPC1.


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It would be interesting to see sales figures for the VPC1. It would also be interesting to know what Kawai's gross profit margin is on the VPC1.

That might help explain why neither Yamaha nor Roland have an entry in this market category (88 key MIDI controller, wooden keys with acoustic-like action, no bells or whistles). If there were a decent amount of money to be made, I have to think that Yamaha would have come out with a competitor to the VPC1 over the course of the past eight years.


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Maybe some manufacturer will rise to the occasion and surprise us all! A real (baby) grand piano action. Real escapement, real pedal feel, with the lightening of the keys as the thing is depressed.
Dammit, such a company could sweep the market!
It's there, all us avid VST users are crying out for this, and there are an ever increasing number of us, sick of the sweet sickly clinical sounds which become more so, year on year as our esteemed suppliers, like the mushrooms we are, feed us bullshi*t
That last bit was my take on this and maybe a tad exaggerated.

Which company would dare to do something so bold? I could ask myself what company would dare not to pass up on such an opportunity?
Perhaps Steinway (Renner) might. It'd be so expensive other companies would hopfully create similar at a fraction of the price.
I do go on a bit . . .


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Originally Posted by peterws
Maybe some manufacturer will rise to the occasion and surprise us all! A real (baby) grand piano action. Real escapement, real pedal feel, with the lightening of the keys as the thing is depressed.
Dammit, such a company could sweep the market! . . .

Behold! I give unto you an instrument, and that instruments name shall be "Piano" and it shall be heavy! And it shall be loud! And it shall needeth tuning on occasion!
But thy needn't have a socket for power... For there needeth not one! And all around shall be amazed by the might of thy playing! And by the realistic tone and feel!

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours Acoustic, for thy Digital, alas, cannot offer what thy neighbour possesses!

And all around knew that it was so.

Last edited by OU812; 07/13/21 07:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by OU812
Originally Posted by peterws
Maybe some manufacturer will rise to the occasion and surprise us all! A real (baby) grand piano action. Real escapement, real pedal feel, with the lightening of the keys as the thing is depressed.
Dammit, such a company could sweep the market! . . .

Behold! I give unto you an instrument, and that instruments name shall be "Piano" and it shall be heavy! And it shall be loud! And it shall needeth tuning on occasion!
But thy needn't have a socket for power... For there needeth not one! And all around shall be amazed by the might of thy playing! And by the realistic tone and feel!

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours Acoustic, for thy Digital, alas, cannot offer what thy neighbour possesses!

And all around knew that it was so.

Vrooom! Vroom! The sound of Moses' Triumph was heard throughot the land . . .

Last edited by peterws; 07/14/21 12:28 AM.

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