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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Jethro
What I don’t understand is why people’s worlds fall apart if someone considers themselves a beginner even if they do attempt to play more advanced pieces. Based upon the recent posts in this thread you can’t win regardless of what you do. As a few have been saying it’s all relative. When compared to the concert pianist teachers I work with personally I absolutely consider myself a beginner just starting out my piano journey.

Surely it must be clear to you that you are not answering the OP's question.
Of course it's related to the OP's question. Discussing what beginner means is a part of answering when you are "beyond" it. What kind of narrow, straightjacketed response would you want instead?

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Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Jethro
What I don’t understand is why people’s worlds fall apart if someone considers themselves a beginner even if they do attempt to play more advanced pieces. Based upon the recent posts in this thread you can’t win regardless of what you do. As a few have been saying it’s all relative. When compared to the concert pianist teachers I work with personally I absolutely consider myself a beginner just starting out my piano journey.

Surely it must be clear to you that you are not answering the OP's question.
Of course it's related to the OP's question. Discussing what beginner means is a part of answering when you are "beyond" it. What kind of narrow, straightjacketed response would you want instead?

Per his post, the OP had the answer he needed on July 6th


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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by Jethro
What I don’t understand is why people’s worlds fall apart if someone considers themselves a beginner even if they do attempt to play more advanced pieces. Based upon the recent posts in this thread you can’t win regardless of what you do. As a few have been saying it’s all relative. When compared to the concert pianist teachers I work with personally I absolutely consider myself a beginner just starting out my piano journey.

Surely it must be clear to you that you are not answering the OP's question.


Surely you realize that the majority of this thread is not answering the OPs question.
Yes.

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Originally Posted by dogperson
Per his post, the OP had the answer he needed on July 6th
Pish posh, when has that ever stopped us? 😂😂😂


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9 Pages of discussion on such a silly question.

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I was thinking...by the time this thread comes to a natural end, I might be an intermediate by then. wink

And then someone might start a thread on when are you beyond intermediate, which I think is an even more difficult question to answer.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 07/09/21 04:17 PM.

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Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
9 Pages of discussion on such a silly question.
Come to think of it. It was kind of silly! LOL. I got involved in it because I remember someone getting so bent out of shape a few months back because I called myself a beginner. So I took the opportunity to try explain myself, but I forgot that thorough responses are sort of taboo on PW.

Last edited by Jethro; 07/09/21 04:30 PM.

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Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by ErfurtBob
9 Pages of discussion on such a silly question.
Come to think of it. It was kind of silly! LOL. I got involved in it because I remember someone getting so bent out of shape a few months back because I called myself a beginner. So I took the opportunity to try explain myself, but I forgot that thorough responses are sort of taboo on PW.
If there ever was a good reason to get "bent out of shape" as you so snarkly put it, it's when someone playing a Chopin Ballade calls themself a beginner. A statement very few people would agree is reasonable. But you stubbornly stick with it.

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The critical question is "When are you no longer a pre-beginner?

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The ABF survey had absolute beginner and advanced beginner. The plot thickens ...


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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I was thinking...by the time this thread comes to a natural end, I might be an intermediate by then. wink

laugh laugh laugh

Quote
And then someone might start a thread on when are you beyond intermediate, which I think is an even more difficult question to answer.

Ohhhhh Nooooooooo..... cry


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I'm wondering when will I no longer be an idiot? 😂


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Originally Posted by ebonyk
I'm wondering when will I no longer be an idiot? 😂

When you stop reading this thread!

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I also think, the RCM/ABRSM levels are a good indicator.

But for those of us, that don't do this method of learnig, there are 10 other indicators telling you ARE a beginner:

- you are afraid of black keys
- your parents are the only one giving you compliments
- your dog leaves the room when you play
- your neighbours are very often on holidays
- mirrors and window glass crack when you practise
- your youtube vid gets more downvotes than upvotes
- milk turns in the fridge
- your neighbours are moving out
- you have problems with counting


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I'm terrified!!!!

I died last week. cry When I got to the Pearly Gates, Saint Peter said I had to go back and do Penance. Specifically, he said I had to read this thread. I'm afraid I must have done something really horrible that I had forgotten about. Now, I don't want to face what awaits me when I go back. shocked

So, PLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE everyone, keep being offended, and keep posting! whistle


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Sigh, I see it’s time for a philosophical interlude as it appears a few minds are already deteriorating.

Let’s ponder a moment the wisdom of “Shoshin”. Shoshin is a word from Zen Buddhism meaning "beginner's mind." It refers to having an attitude of openness, eagerness, and lack of preconceptions when studying a subject, even when studying at an advanced level, just as a beginner would. The phrase is also discussed in the book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki, a Zen teacher. Suzuki outlines the framework behind shoshin, noting "in the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." -Wikipedia

Here’s further wisdom on the matter as it applies to music. https://www.nodeadguys.com/a-piano-blog/5-ways-musicians-can-develop-a-beginners-mind

This particular quote from that article seem’s pertinent to this thread: “If we want to know whether or not we approach music with a “beginner’s mind,” all we have to do is look at the rest of our lives. Are we quick to judge? Do we live our lives by a rigid code? How do we relate to people who are different than we are? Are we capable of a “live and let live” attitude toward ourselves and others? Because here’s the truth: if we can’t be open to new ideas and differing opinions away from the keyboard, we’ll bring that rigid way of thinking right into our music.”

So food for thought, perhaps one suck’s at piano because one is already a goddamn expert and can’t see all the possibilities? Are you open to new ideas and differing opinions? Looking at some of these posts makes me kind of wonder tsk tsk.

To the OP. Do you really want to get beyond beginner?

Last edited by Jethro; 07/10/21 02:31 AM.

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Jethro
Why don’t you apply whatever level you desire to yourself, but please stop the posts that will inflame this thread to continue. It is time to stop.

I honestly find you questioning whether the OP wants to get beyond beginner condescending and inappropriate.

If you had kept up with what he is doing, and actually listened to some of his recording, you would know that he is progressing. And yes, he is new to piano, but has a positive attitude and a good work ethic.


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Originally Posted by dogperson
Jethro
Why don’t you apply whatever level you desire to yourself, but please stop the posts that will inflame this thread to continue. It is time to stop.

I honestly find you questioning whether the OP wants to get beyond beginner condescending and inappropriate.

If you had kept up with what he is doing, and actually listened to some of his recording, you would know that he is progressing. And yes, he is new to piano, but has a positive attitude and a good work ethic.
And if you’ve read my posts directly to him in the past year I’ve been nothing but supportive and encouraging as I am with all “beginners”. I’ve always been excited for him and anyone just getting started in this wonderful journey. I’ve noticed you pop up from time to time with no other purpose than to try to be condescending particularly to me but I just put up with it. What I wrote in the last post is something you should really try to digest. You really need to stop policing posts. Join the conversation if you want. Debate if you want. But inflaming is exactly the thing I see you doing here. No need to be difficult. No one needs to be that way. It’s just the piano. How can we be arguing about the piano?

Last edited by Jethro; 07/10/21 03:00 AM.

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Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by dogperson
Jethro
Why don’t you apply whatever level you desire to yourself, but please stop the posts that will inflame this thread to continue. It is time to stop.

I honestly find you questioning whether the OP wants to get beyond beginner condescending and inappropriate.

If you had kept up with what he is doing, and actually listened to some of his recording, you would know that he is progressing. And yes, he is new to piano, but has a positive attitude and a good work ethic.
And if you’ve read my posts directly to him in the past year I’ve been nothing but supportive and encouraging as I am with all “beginners”. I’ve noticed you pop up from time to time with no other purpose than to try to be condescending particularly to me but I just put up with it. What I wrote in the last post is something you should really try to digest.


Digest your ‘tsk ’ ‘Tsk’ to other forum members? No thanks. I’m progressing just fine at piano without your words of wisdom.


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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Jethro
Originally Posted by dogperson
Jethro
Why don’t you apply whatever level you desire to yourself, but please stop the posts that will inflame this thread to continue. It is time to stop.

I honestly find you questioning whether the OP wants to get beyond beginner condescending and inappropriate.

If you had kept up with what he is doing, and actually listened to some of his recording, you would know that he is progressing. And yes, he is new to piano, but has a positive attitude and a good work ethic.
And if you’ve read my posts directly to him in the past year I’ve been nothing but supportive and encouraging as I am with all “beginners”. I’ve noticed you pop up from time to time with no other purpose than to try to be condescending particularly to me but I just put up with it. What I wrote in the last post is something you should really try to digest.


Digest your ‘tsk ’ ‘Tsk’ to other forum members? No thanks. I’m progressing just fine at piano without your words of wisdom.
Well then I see the message got across to one of the right persons. I read your posts. I like them. You offer a lot of good info and they are interesting. I’m always kind to you. Can you be the same to me?


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