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Joined: Jul 2021
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Hello everybody
I need help buying a digital piano. I´m a beginner. I have been learning in Internet for a year until 2 months ago that I started classes with a teacher. I have a very basic keyboard and I want to invest in a piano for a long time. I am looking for something more than just a piano, an arranger. I've been looking but I could wait until Christmas. I have three options:

Yamaha CSP170 (new): $ 3,000
Yamaha CVP-709 (used: $ 4,200
Yamaha CVP-805 (new): $ 6,100

Yamaha CSP170
Pros
- In the price range that I would like to spend.
- New instrument, brand new.
- Didactic possibilities, multiple voices and accompaniments
Cons
- Not immediate availability. Due to the shortage of microchips, factories are stopped. Until October, at least, they can’t tell me if there will be availability.
- Perhaps higher price: due to the market, the increase in travel costs and the possibility of updates within the same model
- I don't know if the accompaniment system and the piano in general with respect to the CVP range is much lower.
- It’s a 2017 model and I don't know if a new model will be avaliable soon.
- Based on an app. If in a future is discontinued...

Yamaha CVP-709
Pros
- Immediate availability
- High-end model, better speakers, more and better voices and I think the accompaniment system is much more advanced.
Cons
- It goes up in price but I could take it
- Discontinued model launched on the market in 2015
- Used. The owner says that it is like new but I can`t verify it (it`s in another province).
- No connection to the iPad to use the Smart Pianist app (it is very good to be able to get the chords of your songs from your music library). I don't know if it's possible with another app.

Yamaha CVP-805
Pros:
- New model
- Connects to Smart Pianist
- The voices are improved
- Immediate availability
Cons:
- Only one left in the store (the display one). If they sell it the same thing will happen as with the CSP-170 due to the microchip crisis I will have to wait due to the microchip crisis
- High price. Very expensive and it is much more than what I had planned to pay. If it was worth it, maybe I could buy it, but with a lot of effort.
- I don’t know if it’s a disadvantage or not, but from my inexperience I would not realize: I have read in the forum that the new action (Grand Touch) from Yamaha is not as good as in the CVP-709. For others opinions, it’s the best action made by Yamaha.

Thank you

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I am considering a CVP-809. I looked at the 709, but felt like I wouldn't be happy with the lack of app support and bluetooth. It still has great sound specs though, so you may be happy with it depending on your preferences. It certainly has the best appearance out of the 3 you are considering. I'm thinking about getting a DGX-670 for my office to try the features out. It has some similar features to the CVP line (many of the same voices and arranger styles), and was just introduced this year and is generally in stock since it is only $1000 with the stand and pedals. If I like it, I will probably get a CVP-809 for home.

Best of luck!


Yamaha CLP-795 / Ordered 6 Sep 2021, Arrived 4 Nov 2021
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Instruments at Home or Office | Pianos: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-795, Wurlitzer baby grand, Winter & Co. baby grand, Everett studio | Keyboards: Roland Fantom, Yamaha PSR-275 | Organ: Lowrey Prestige
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I’m not here to change your mind, but why the CVP?

The CLP-785 gives you plenty of voices (sounds) to play with, a good action, and good sound system; not to mention, a beautiful cabinet.

It even has 20 ‘backup’ tracks to play along with, so if fun is what you’re looking for there’s no need to pay so much for a CVP when the CLP is so much fun for half the price.

This CVP-709 “in excellent condition”; if I were you I’d stay away from it, not only because it’s outdated, but also because that action and sensors have gotten a beating from dust, greasy hands, and god knows what else. I always list my used instruments as “excellent, bought it for junior but he only took two lessons on it”; when in reality I’ve been beating that poor thing to death and it only has a few more months in it; hence, why I’m selling, but they don’t know that and always fall for my “junior gave up” story. The trick is to look them in the eye; it always works.

Now, about the shortage, canal bump, or chip-factory fire, I’m skeptical to say the least, and expect dealers to use this as an excuse to sell you what they have on the floor based on the BS that otherwise it’ll be months because of one ‘shortage’ or another. IMHO!

Some people have gotten their instrument(s) in a few weeks, and the real reason for the slowdown ‘was’ the virus; which as we all know is now improving either in terms of people returning to their ports fully vaccinated, wearing masks and following basic protocols, and/or working from home. In a nutshell, things are improving and getting better in terms of trade, manufacturing, hauling, shipping, etc…..so I believe they’re lying when they say, “it’ll be months of waiting if you don’t buy this floor model” (in a way used) for the price of a brand-new, boxed, and never touched model. I’d take the latter, thank you very much.

In case this isn’t clear enough, I’ll say it again, IMHO!

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Pete14, are there any apps or programs that can simulate the arranger functionality from the CVP? I would like to try it. It's an interesting concept to me that I could practice on my home piano, bring the app or computer with me to my office (church) and have the exact same sound, even if it's a different model/brand keyboard altogether. That would be amazing!


Yamaha CLP-795 / Ordered 6 Sep 2021, Arrived 4 Nov 2021
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Instruments at Home or Office | Pianos: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-795, Wurlitzer baby grand, Winter & Co. baby grand, Everett studio | Keyboards: Roland Fantom, Yamaha PSR-275 | Organ: Lowrey Prestige
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Sure, there’s an app for that!

However, I will have to defer you to our apps specialists for further advise and/or recommendations. This is not my field of expertise, but be patient, and one of our trained specialists will be in touch with you.

In a nutshell, hardware gets old quickly whilst software keeps reinventing itself for less money. So all those fancy violins on the CVP-809 will get old very quickly (think dog years), and you will be stuck with yesterday’s orchestra (band in a box) within a few years.

So I say, get only the essential hardware (one good piano patch, one good set of speakers, one nice cabinet, but please do not get a band in a box because software can do this for so much less; and might I add, so much better that it’s not even funny.


Disclaimer: I have nothing personal against the CVP; it’s just business!

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The CVP 809 would be wonderful for me but It's very expensive for me. I hope you can enjoy it very soon and give us your impressions.

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Thanks for the reply. Yes, I know that for the same price I would get a better piano from the CLP range, but the idea of ​​enriching my knowledge and fun with the plus offered by the cvp / csp range really appeals more to me. It`s true that there is software that allows you more things. I don't think it has the sophistication of band accompaniments for example. And on the other hand, I want a device to have fun and not a recording studio with cables and computers in the middle of the room. It’s more expensive and it will lose value once purchased, but that will also happen to any digital piano that you buy including the CLP. The CLP over time won’t be better .It will have the same piano sounds and with the CVP I will be able to use the same piano sounds even if the rest of the features are out of date. But enjoying the piano during that time will have written off the value. Think that $ 5000 in 10 years is $ 500 a year or about $ 40 a month. I think the expense makes up for the satisfaction I will get.
(sorry for y English. I don`t speak very well)

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IronFran, your message is perfectly clear to me. I am wanting to buy a digital piano that is fun, sounds great, feels great, and looks sexy in the middle of my music room. Due to the sex appeal tick box, my preference for the appearance of the piano seems to cross boundaries between digital, hybrid, etc.


Yamaha CLP-795 / Ordered 6 Sep 2021, Arrived 4 Nov 2021
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Instruments at Home or Office | Pianos: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-795, Wurlitzer baby grand, Winter & Co. baby grand, Everett studio | Keyboards: Roland Fantom, Yamaha PSR-275 | Organ: Lowrey Prestige
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I was expecting you (IronFran and TexasBear) to describe your needs. But I've not seen any of that. So I have to ask: What capabilities are you looking for in a piano?

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I was expecting you (IronFran and TexasBear) to describe your needs. But I've not seen any of that. So I have to ask: What capabilities are you looking for in a piano?

I laid it out in another thread, but I'll be trying out several models over the next 2 months to assess the fun factor.
1. Appearance 360º as I will be placing it in the middle of the room. I'm looking at the baby grand style or another style that looks nice from the back.
2. Sounds & features - I think any of the models at this level will have a very nice piano sound. I'm also looking for something that I can add pads and other layers so I can practice for Sundays. Also open to doing this with an external app if it's an easy workflow to get used to.
3. Feel - Any of the newer models will have better feel than my daily Roland with non-weighted keys! I generally play on that and low-end baby grands, so my needs are not very sophisticated.


Yamaha CLP-795 / Ordered 6 Sep 2021, Arrived 4 Nov 2021
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Instruments at Home or Office | Pianos: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-795, Wurlitzer baby grand, Winter & Co. baby grand, Everett studio | Keyboards: Roland Fantom, Yamaha PSR-275 | Organ: Lowrey Prestige
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I meant that question for IronFran, given that this is his thread.

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I meant that question for IronFran, given that this is his thread.
Lol I was wondering why you included my name in there!


Yamaha CLP-795 / Ordered 6 Sep 2021, Arrived 4 Nov 2021
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Instruments at Home or Office | Pianos: Yamaha Clavinova CLP-795, Wurlitzer baby grand, Winter & Co. baby grand, Everett studio | Keyboards: Roland Fantom, Yamaha PSR-275 | Organ: Lowrey Prestige
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This thread remains public domain until the proper paperwork is completed and approved by the board!

Mac, of all people I’d thought you knew better than that…….

awarding thread ownership when not even an application has been completed?

What were you thinking?

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I ‘m 56 years old and I know my limitations. I know that I will not become a piano virtuoso. However, it twill be an activity that takes up my part of my free time. When I stop working for retirement later on, I hope it will become my main activity. I like classical music but I am also passionate about modern music (Pop, Rock).

My expectations for a piano are that it `s good enough to be able to learn properly with good action and wooden keys. I want to take advantage of the accompaniment part and to play modern music and, in turn, I want to take advantage of the learning possibilities that new technologies offer me.

Sometimes I get the impression that there is an aversion to the CVP / CSP models, despising them for having many buttons and lights or also for their worse quality compared to the CLP models in the same price range. Also that this can be supplied with software. I’m not saying that it cannot be supplied with software but I do not know them, I do not know if its price is affordable, I don´t know the degree of sophistication it has and the ease of use. Why not have it all in one device? What kind of people is the CVP / CSP range aimed at, beginners, advanced people, professionals?

I`m a beginner and sure I‘m wrong. Please, help me clarify myself. Maybe because I'm a beginner I'm looking for something outside of my abilities and I'm going to waste my money? Would it be better to do without all those features and go to something more basic?

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IronFran, I would say that is completely up to you, how much you want to spend, and the commitment you want to make to expanding your playing skills. I am really considering purchasing a DGX-670 for my office to test out. It's an $800 low-end 88-key arranger that has some similar features and sounds from the CVP series. That would give me some indication if I like the day-to-day operation of the CVP-809 I'm looking at for my music room at home.

I haven't heard anything negative about the CSP range. Although it has a lot of voices and styles, the control panel is very minimalistic. Very few buttons. Most of the features require the Smart Pianist app on an iPad (maybe Android tablets too, not sure?). If I were looking only at sounds and features, it would be on my list.

The cons of the CVP series from members like Pete14, et al., are mainly based on pricing of the CVP from what I can tell. I agree the series is ridiculously overpriced, but it combines the best features and sounds in a single package like no other manufacturer has done. Yamaha can get away with that because they are the only manufacturer that has invested the R&D to create such a product. Obviously there is a market for it.


Yamaha CLP-795 / Ordered 6 Sep 2021, Arrived 4 Nov 2021
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This is precisely the reason for buying an "ensemble" piano ...
Originally Posted by IronFran
I want to take advantage of the accompaniment part and to play modern music and, in turn, I want to take advantage of the learning possibilities that new technologies offer me.

I understand this ...
Originally Posted by IronFran
Sometimes I get the impression that there is an aversion to the CVP / CSP models, despising them for having many buttons and lights or also for their worse quality compared to the CLP models in the same price range.
But IMO some people want to buy a CVP or similar piano for the bells and whistles, whilst having no clear reason for those. If someone doesn't use those features then they've spent A LOT more money than the corresponding non-ensemble CLP model.

So that's what prompted my question. It's clear you want the accompaniment features, and not because that brings lots of shiny buttons.

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IronFran, if you are planning on putting the piano against a wall, then the CSP series surely has the features you are looking for as long as you are okay having a separate iPad sitting on the music rest to control it. That's not necessarily a bad thing as the iPad app is a lot easier to update than the piano.


Yamaha CLP-795 / Ordered 6 Sep 2021, Arrived 4 Nov 2021
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I think I'll wait for the CSP. I hope availability is not delayed for long. The CVP 709 is tempting but I have many doubts because it’s used. The CVP 805 is over budget for me.

Thank you You have been very kind.


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