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I hesitated for awhile before posting this because it is a little bit of a sensitive topic. However, I would appreciate advice from the collective wisdom in this forum.

Here is TL;DR version: Bought a Steinway A3 rebuilt by one of the foremost Steinway rebuilders in the country. Arrived cross country with sticky keys/hammers and very sticky dampers. Keys/hammers adjusted and working well after several visits by a piano technician. However, dampers don't work well still and rebuilder offering to have piano transported to local piano technicians shop to rebuild damper action (only thing not rebuilt). Is this more work than I should have bargained for? Should I pursue this course of action or ask to return/exchange the piano?


I began my new piano search last fall. I played a ton of instruments including Bechsteins, Masons, Shigerus... However, fell in love with Steinway sound but not the new Steinway premium price. Finally decided on a rebuilt A3. In early March, I saw Hugh Sung on YouYube (link in signature) play a beautiful A3 and called him that day and bought the piano. Having young kids, I wanted a silent system and we agreed on having a PianoDisc Quiet Time ProRecord system and mute rail installed. This process took a couple months as they had to order parts etc. Finally piano arrived May 8. Immediately I knew something was wrong. The piano did not fare well on its cross country journey from Philadelphia to Southern California.

The keys/hammers were sticky, pedals didn't work properly, and the dampers were stuck (didn't drop after letting go of the keys). I was also really surprised that the piano arrived with an entire player system installed, speakers, solenoids and all. Definitely not what I wanted. It's a player system that I can't even use because the piano is only equipped with a PianoDisc Quiet Time box. While annoying, not a deal breaker as long as it didn't affect the overall piano.

Hugh was gracious as expected and Cunningham covered the cost of having a registered piano technician come out. He actually took the action back to his shop to fix the hammers and regulate the action stack. Unfortunately, after three visits, he has been unable to get the dampers to work properly. I have gotten a hygrometer and a dehumidifier thinking maybe it was more humid in Southern California than Philadelphia. Alas, no improvement.

I spoke to Hugh and Rich a couple days ago. They obviously stand behind their product and want me to be happy with it. They offered to pay for the piano to be moved to the local piano tech's shop for him to rebuild the damper action. This is the only part of the piano that was not rebuilt. Tentatively, I have agreed to this plan of action. However, I am having second thoughts...

I LOVE how the piano sounds. There are a couple voicing issues with just three notes but nothing other than that. There were a few rattles and buzzes that the piano tech was able to fix. Pedals are working better but not perfect. Case work is really nice and piano looks awesome. I don't like the feel of the action when playing with the mute rail and decided already to get a digital. Purchased a Yamaha P515 to practice on.

Do you all think I should go ahead and have the damper rebuilt by the local piano tech (who also restores pianos in his spare time) or should I ask to return the piano or exchange for another instrument? I'm frustrated that the damper problem is such a big one and I paid quite a bit for the piano. I'm also frustrated that they cut out the legs to install solenoids and lot of other stuff that in reality I didn't want or need and cannot even use. The PianoDisc Quiet Time system is only supposed to be fitted with keybed sensors and pedal sensors, not all the fancy player mechanics. Its also a risk having the local technician rebuild the damper action.

Thanks for the advice. I have been treated with nothing but kindness and generosity by Rich and Hugh at Cunningham. I can definitely vouch for their integrity and willingness to make things right.

Would also appreciate honest advice via direct or private message if that is more comfortable for you.

Since you like the way this one looks and sounds, and the company you are dealing with is standing behind their product from across the country, let them make it right as they are offering to do. If you exchange the piano you will have to wait for a while anyways so you might as well wait on this one a bit since you have positive feelings about it and the people from whom you bought.

Thanks Keith for the advice. Yes I do like the sound but not sure I bargained for the amount of work that needs to be done to it. For what I paid it’s been a lot of frustration and headache. I’ve taken two days off work in order to be home for the piano technician and foresee possibly more for moving the piano to and from the technicians shop. Not to mention the time without the instrument for myself or my kids to practice on.

I worry this is just a harbinger of future issues with this piano that I purchased to be my instrument for life. This seems like a big issue to have after just purchasing a newly rebuilt piano.

I think that what Keith says makes good sense at this juncture. It appears that the dealer is making a good faith effort thus far, and all of the remedies suggested thus far are money out of his pocket.

Why the piano arrived in this condition remains a mystery. As a rebuilder and former piano dealer myself, it is hard to imagine the piano leaving their shop in this condition. You have paid a big chunk of change, and this is a big sale for the dealer. It will be very expensive for him to take the piano back. And returning the piano will have its own associated headaches for you, even if it turns out to be the right thing to do.

How long did it take to get to your house from the time it left the dealer in Philadelphia until it arrived at your home? (Which is where?) My suspicion is that the piano may have been stored for a while in the interstate mover's warehouse before loaded onto another truck and brought to you.

That said, unless you live near a big lake or are near the ocean, the humidity problems should have relieved themselves, especially since the tech probably treated the damper action centers with Protek or other center pin lubricants to relieve the sticking. So I have to ask whether or not the damper action is suffering from Verdigris. If that is true, then the damper action would need to be replaced rather than rebuilt.

So I think it is in both your interest and the dealer's to follow through and find a solution that satisfies both of you.

I am going to suggest that you ask the tech who has worked on the piano if there are signs of Verdigris in the damper action. Usually, there will be telltale spots of green around the center pin bushings. That is my suspicion from afar. If you are not satisfied that the tech is sufficiently independent of the dealer, then on your own dime find someone who does high quality action rebuilding to appraise the condition of the back action. It also sounds like the piano was jostled a bit and the player may be maladjusted and interfering, whereby the key is not returning all the way and sitting slightly high and dampers sounding sometimes. Enough to make the pianist miserable.

The independent tech can also appraise the quality of the restoration in general.

Good luck to you.

Yeah for whatever reason the piano definitely arrived worse for wear. It seemed that between pick up to delivery the piano did not sit very long in storage. The interstate and local moves happened pretty quickly.

The piano tech is someone I actually found myself locally so I believe is independent of the dealer. He seems to be quite experienced. I don’t think he has done a lot with the damper action other than heat because it is not easy to access the pins and levers.

As far as the player system, it’s something that I did not want installed on the piano and I was surprised to see it when the piano arrived. One of my concerns with this is also that it will adversely affect the resale value in the future.

Regarding the unwanted player system, it is important what you have in writing the details of the installation of a player system. Even the less expensive PianoDisc quiet time system will have cost enough that it will serve both you and the dealer to have that information lain out at the time of the sale of the piano and subsequent player installation.

Find a local technician experienced in PianoDisc player installations and the product line. He can bring clarity to the differences between what you got and what you wanted.

Dampers can hang if the damper guide rail bushings are too tight, or if the damper wire bending is not done sufficiently well. The tech will have ready access to adjust/ease as needed. Ask the tech what he thinks he needs to rebuild the action or otherwise get the dampers to perform properly.

The player installation will limit the number of potential buyers because not everyone who plays well will want to have the player and the extra cost. There will be others who want just such a thing. The A3 is a highly desirable Steinway to own amongst serious musicians.

I would suggest that you check your bill of sale, since you paid for a player system you do not want.

I would assume it would be listed.

I would get the damper system fixed as that seems the biggest problem at the moment.

When you have a functional piano make the decision to keep or trade it.

Yeah the bill of sale has the silent system listed, not a player system. The player system installation is actually quite a bit more labor and work than just a silent system.

Thanks for the advice. I negotiated the price of the PianoDisc Quiet Time system into the price of the piano. It is listed on the invoice but has no price next to it. Fortunately, the piano technician who I have been working with is an experienced PianoDisc installer and did tell me I got an entire player system installed that is not part of the PianoDisc Quiet Time System. In fact, I don't even have the correct PianoDisc unit to utilize a player system.

The RPT says that he will have to rebuild the damper action to get them to perform properly. There are just too many hanging dampers. Also, I am wary of just getting a temporary fix only to have dampers start lagging in a few months.

I assume you have notified Cunningham Pianos?

Yes communication with Cunningham has been good. At first they said that the player system is part of the Quiet Time system (which it is not) but otherwise they haven't addressed this point. you can't really undo a player system- the hole has been cut through the bottom of the piano keybed and notches cut out of the legs to put in the solenoids. Modifications that I would never have wanted in my piano. I have no use for a player system.

Tentative agreement is to have piano shipped to technicians shop for him to rebuild the damper action. The damper action was the only part of the piano not rebuilt. I'm just having second thoughts about whether to keep this piano at all with so many issues at this point. Not an easy situation to be in for either myself or the dealer.

This makes the most sense to me. If you go this route be sure to have a clear understanding with Cunningham Pianos that you still have the option to trade the piano in if you are not totally satisfied.

Rich

As I see it there's two main problems.

First is the condition of the piano when it arrived. It simply was defective but the dealer is having all the remedial work at their expense and as long everything works then I can't see how this is an issue. Dampers as I have found out are tricky things especially on longer pianos. Having said that as long as you have the right technician who knows what they are doing it is fixable and it sounds like Rich and Hugh are committed to making sure the piano works. It's a shame about the inconvenience of having to get the repairs done but shipping pianos over long distances can be problematic.

The other issue is the PianoDisc installation. The question is what discussion you had with the Hugh/Rich around the installation of this. I assume you would have agreed a price for this prior to them fitting the system. So the question is what was specified for the install? This sounds to me like a miscommunication/misunderstanding somewhere between the two parties. I assume you wanted a system where you could just put headphones on to practice with the mute rail on. Can you do that? If so then I assume the issue lies with additional components you weren't expecting for what you paid. That's a trickier question and without being party to the exact discussion, then it's hard to give you an answer as to what to do.

Good summary and recommendations.

I sincerely appreciate all of the comments, advice and empathy. I had hesitated to post in here hoping the piano issues would resolve themselves and then I could make a post showing my new wonderful piano! However, I knew with this situation I would not find another community of like minded souls who would understand my piano problems.


Yes I can practice with the mute rail and a silent mode. The bigger issue is all the other stuff that was installed that I cannot use and that may ultimately affect long term performance, servicing and resale value of the instrument such as the solenoids (requiring a big cut in the keybed and cuts in the legs) and the pedal activation devices that have already adversely affected the pedal mechanisms.

Currently, despite all the work done by the tech, the soft pedal is not functioning, the sostenuto has very poor pedal feel, and while the damper pedal works, the dampers do not.



This is what I am grappling with. Even if the dampers are fixed, I would worry that it would not be reliable long term. Also, given all the additional modifications to the piano that I did not desire, would I truly be satisfied keeping the instrument? Maybe better to just discuss return/exchange at this point before committing to the big job of damper rebuilding. It might be better for both myself and the dealer?

Greetings,
The back action (damper assembly) should be as new as the rest of the action. I would opt to have it replaced, not repaired.
Regards,

I don't think you should be going through all this trouble and mental stress. It's simple: you didn't get what you paid for. Return it and be at peace. There's always another Steinway (or something else you'll like even better).

I don't think this is a question of long term? You bought the piano (I assume sight unseen - did a tech check this out prior to sale?) which means you have accepted the piano in the condition it was bought with the dampers that it came with. The dealer has to get the dampers working on the piano you bought. If you want new dampers then I would think you'd have to bear the cost of that.