Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Steinway D Concert Grand Piano Voicing

I have a D too. Always having work done on it by an excellent technician. I’m just a life-long piano lover and practice about an hour every day - all classical. I’m always dissatisfied with the D - uneven tone, unisons always out, but it doesn’t lose pitch because I’m ocd about heat/humidity. Been together 54 yrs! One thing to have technician check on yours: make sure the hammers are evenly striking all 2-3 strings simultaneously. Your tones make me think of that. Also, don’t know about your situation, but mine is in a large living room, plaster ceiling. We may be hearing sounds at home that would not sound the same on a concert stage. ?? Ron

I suggest hiring an independent technician who is skilled in tone regulation to inspect the piano and report the finding only to you.

I also strongly recommend that you have the tech test the V-bar for hardness and shape. The V-bar should not have any case hardening and should be a true V-shape in profile with a 1mm wide string contact area.

You might not think you have problems but improperly shaped and configured V-bars severely limit treble tone quality and string longevity. The problems often take several years to fully manifest but can present immediately by pinched tone and chiming like string noises.

Hm, must be my ears then. This pair of old membranes tells me that basically every unison has uneven harmonics. Listen to the 10ths - all of them wobble at different frequencies.

No, I thought the same thing. The tuning sounded like it might have been done a few weeks ago. It wasn't massively out, but it wasn't freshly done either. The tone was awful as was the lack of sustain on all the notes. Maybe it was just the way it was recorded, but it sounded like it was a much smaller piano than a brand new 9' concert grand.

I just said it was okay, meaning that it was adequate to do some preliminary diagnostics. Other things need to be done before one should worry about improving the tuning.

A long time ago someone here said that 90% of all tuning problems are voicing, and 90% of all voicing problems are tuning.

The raw basics that must first be satisfied are: good solid fresh tuning, good mating of hammers to strings, and good regulation paying particular attention to eveness of let-off. After all this is done, begin judging the voicing. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

Peter - FWIW, I think you're spot-on.

That said, I wish there was some standardization about what goes into a "voicing" job, a "regulation" job.

As example, I would think that mating hammers to the strings is an essential part of voicing, or at least checking to verify that if this had been done in the past, the hammers are still hitting square on, etc.

Would you consider string leveling to be a separate job, or is that part of "mating the hammers to the strings"?
And so forth.

As to "judging the voicing", are you using that term (perhaps somewhat narrowly) to describe just the treatment of the hammers? Listening to the recording, I heard what I heard - the unevenness, the differing tonal qualities from note to note in the same parts of the piano. I would have called those "voicing" problems. As to the specific issue: strings not level, hammers not hitting squarely, shoulders too hard, shoulders too soft, etc - the diagnosis and treatment would have fallen under the "voicing" umbrella for me.

Just askin'.

Getting the typical SSD concert ready involves at a minimum all of the things mentioned and more.
A few things that cause tone issues are: Poor bridge work, if bridge pins are lose or the the bridge pins are slightly forward or behind the notch it will be almost impossible to tune a perfect unison.
Soundboard issues tend to be the norm for D’S and there are techniques to help compensate or disguise power and sustain related issues.
Agraffes: many times are not machined correct either leaving burrs inside or the holes are uneven causing string leveling issues.
Leveling the strings simply means bending them and can cause unwanted noise.
Scaling issues make it difficult to voice across the lo-tenor upper bass break.
At times I have noticed that when tuning, either the left string of a unison especially in the treble go out or the right string. I believe the bridge rolls slightly due to moisture content changes.
It’s a constant battle.

I would prefer a low-maintenance piano, if such a thing exists.

Is there a piano brand that is more reliable than Steinway?

For example, Bosendorfer VC or Yamaha CFX?

There is no low-maintenance concert grand that deserves that name, no matter the brand.

Even if you play it only once a week for a couple of minutes, there is wear and tear on a microscopic level every time you play a single note. Fibres in the hammers get slightly compressed and change the hammer's structure, slight changes in temperature and humidity affect all parts of the action and the acoustic assembly. A really decent concert grand that is used for performances and recordings is in constant maintenance mode, even if it is not played.

And maintaining a concert grand to the highest possible standards is Work In Progress by definition. A decent concert technician will go through a long set of check boxes after and before every single concert, just like the pre-flight check in a jet fighter. And the very minute such a plane leaves the tarmac and is parked in its hangar, a maintenance crew will start working on it.

If I had a concert grand in my home, I'd put aside an annual budget of at least 4000 USD just for maintenance and have a regular schedule of getting a concert technician over every 6 weeks or so. Otherwise I'd feel that I've wasted money on never fully exposing the full potential of the piano and keeping it there at all times.

Most of the concert artists I know cannot afford that sort of service, nor most of the venues. The people who can afford it do not necessarily have the time nor the inclination to get it done, even if they play well enough to merit it, and those who do not play well enough to merit it vastly outnumber the those who do. It is not just the client's time which is limited. There are not a lot of techs who do decent work on pianos, and those who may not have the time to be at one's beck and call. That is true of a lot of professions. I went to a very good dentist yesterday. I schedule with him two check-ups in advance.

Steinways hold up to concert service comparably to most other concert pianos, once they have been set up properly. But they are not always set up properly. On the other hand, even the best pianos do not maintain their setup if the maintenance is not done. You should strike a compromise between ideals and practicality. It is okay to have ideals, but the real world tends to stand between you and your ideals.

There is a widespread belief that the bigger the piano the better, period. This is not categorically true. Concert instruments are intended for the concert stage, not the recording studio, not the home. They are DESIGNED to be heard best from at least 20-30 feet away and more. At that distance one cannot hear it's noisy dampers, less than perfect scale design, treble false beats, etc etc.

There are plenty of 7-8' instruments available that are far more suited to the home environment. I would suggest that the OP consider some of these. Clearly money is no object. There are some truly fantastic instruments out there better than what's being considered. IMHO only.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

BDB, define what you mean by a properly set up concert grand

The better rebuilders know how to eliminate or greatly reduce many of the stated problems and more and deliver a much more stable instrument. Better looking too.

Doctor Peter,

I disagree. If what you say were true, all recordings of concert grands would be done with microphones that far away and in a big hall with lots of natural reverb and ambience. Clearly this is not the case. And there many fantastic recordings out there done in a studio environment with microphones really close to the piano in order to avoid too much reverb from the hall.

Piano technicians with lots experience are easily capable of adapting a concert grand's characteristic to a person's home, including advice on what to change in a room in terms of furniture, carpets etc.

Nevertheless: I would actually prefer recordings the way you describe, alas, this hardly ever happens.

I have never like the sound of concert grands in small room. The large sound source of a 9' soundboard with close reflecting surfaces never sounds even. One can shift their body position on the bench while playing and certain notes will change in volume.

There is no practical way around this as no one wants to live in an anechoic room.

My comments are not to be construed as universal and non-negotiable. But as a general rule, unless one has a truly huge room to put it in, there is likely to be some disappointment. That said, not all D's are corn for the stage and their tonal signature may be more suited to a small(er) environment. These things are relative.

But the idea that "bigger is better" is also relative.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

Regulated, tuned, voiced.

Correction: not all D's are cut out for the stage. I don't know where "corn" came from.

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

I use ORTF all the time and I am really happy with that kind of living room sound:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-gOTs30LisleWpivsDe1JimbllV66YnJ/view?usp=drivesdk