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Pianoteq is a great virtual instrument which immitates piano 'behaviour' very closely, but not its sound. On the other hand, if you record a piece of music with Pianoteq and play it for random people on the street asking "what instrument is it", giving them 3 options:
1. guitar
2. piano
3. pianoteq
I bet majority would choose 2nd option. So.. maybe it is realistic after all?


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Hello,

@AlphaBravoCharlie, Glad to hear that my experiences with these two libraries may not be representative.

As for the Hammersmith, since you don't like that mic just as I don't, that'll be among the major culprits with the free demo. And yes, pedal down (the lack of it in the demo) as well.

As for the PV C7, at the time I was sforzando fan and had good fun with it, so the more disappointed I was with the compact C7, although I had no technical issues with it as you had. Still, buying the full version is a risk I am not comfortable in taking. If Jason had a demo license policy like VSL has, it might entice me to stick my toe in that water a little further.

In any case, thank you for shedding some light on these!

Over, HotelZuluPapa 😉

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Sure, but everyone here has a very good concept of what an AP is, and the compromises with VSTs.

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Given that most people won't have heard of Pianoteq, this is really a choice between guitar and piano ...
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
If you record a piece of music with Pianoteq and play it for random people on the street asking "what instrument is it", giving them 3 options:
1. guitar
2. piano
3. pianoteq
I bet majority would choose 2nd option.
If your prediction is correct then shall we conclude that Modartt has been successful at making Pianoteq sound not like a guitar?

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@MacMacMac I am beginning to think you are a disguised Pianoteq agent grin... Because when people who have not played it, read your messages blasting it, for sure some will be curious to try it to find out what is all about that crappy sound. And perhaps some find it is not that bad and so Pianoteq gets another user. thumb

It is a clever strategy, but you have been exposed! laugh


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Quote
1. guitar
2. piano
3. pianoteq

Now play some good pieces on those 3 options for random people and ask them which one touched them the most emotionally.

I'd be surprised if anyone said option 3.

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Originally Posted by Christopher90
Sure, but everyone here has a very good concept of what an AP is, and the compromises with VSTs.

Many on this forum haven't even seen or touched an acoustic piano in person. They are modeling their perception after CD recordings of grand pianos or movie soundtracks with heavily processed piano samples.


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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Christopher90
Sure, but everyone here has a very good concept of what an AP is, and the compromises with VSTs.

Many on this forum haven't even seen or touched an acoustic piano in person. They are modeling their perception after CD recordings of grand pianos or movie soundtracks with heavily processed piano samples.

There's a sweeping generalisation. Where do you get these statistics from?

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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Christopher90
Sure, but everyone here has a very good concept of what an AP is, and the compromises with VSTs.

Many on this forum haven't even seen or touched an acoustic piano in person. They are modeling their perception after CD recordings of grand pianos or movie soundtracks with heavily processed piano samples.
Absolutely correct.

I deal with people all the time who think they want realism - often that turns out not to be the case!

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I thought I should also add Crudebyte’s Colossus Piano into the mix. It easily sounds better than pianoteq, it’s quite playable, and you can carry it without without even noticing it’s there(barring the fact that it’s infinitely more playable with a midi keyboard).

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Originally Posted by oswaldpeters
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Christopher90
Sure, but everyone here has a very good concept of what an AP is, and the compromises with VSTs.

Many on this forum haven't even seen or touched an acoustic piano in person. They are modeling their perception after CD recordings of grand pianos or movie soundtracks with heavily processed piano samples.
Absolutely correct.

I deal with people all the time who think they want realism - often that turns out not to be the case!

It's funny how it works. People listen to a movie soundtrack and recognize a certain piano sample, which has been used to produce that. Then they buy the same sample library and are amazed, how "realistic" it reproduces "[Brand] [Model]", while they just react positively to sample-exact reproduction of something they heard and enjoyed before.

My Yamaha P-515 digital piano has a really bright, but pretty unrealistic "Studio Grand" sample, which I liked for some reason. One day when I was playing along to some of my favorite songs, I heard beating frequencies, because they used the exact same sample, which was slightly out of tune with my own digital piano, but similar enough to create beats. I solved by switching to a different voice, but I realized what was the reason for me liking that certain voice.

We simply prefer what is already familiar to us.


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@JoeT: It sounds as though you sit in theaters watching people watch a movie.
And then follow those people home to watch them order a sample library.
And then ask them to compare that library to their experience with the movie music.

And you repeat this many times ... enough to give you a statistically meaningful data set.
And then you come here with the results.

Or ... maybe you just made it up ...
Originally Posted by JoeT
People listen to a movie soundtrack and recognize a certain piano sample, which has been used to produce that. Then they buy the same sample library and are amazed, how "realistic" it reproduces "[Brand] [Model]", while they just react positively to sample-exact reproduction of something they heard and enjoyed before.

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Originally Posted by JoeT
People listen to a movie soundtrack and recognize a certain piano sample, which has been used to produce that.

I believe, people, pianists included, can recognize a piano in an ensemble. But don't you think it's a bit of a stretch to state that they'd be able to first recognize it's a VST and then further identify which one?


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Originally Posted by EB5AGV
@MacMacMac I am beginning to think you are a disguised Pianoteq agent grin... Because when people who have not played it, read your messages blasting it, for sure some will be curious to try it to find out what is all about that crappy sound. And perhaps some find it is not that bad and so Pianoteq gets another user. thumb

It is a clever strategy, but you have been exposed! laugh

hmmmmm.... I wonder lolllll


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I understand some folks not liking Pianoteq but I don't think it is bad and the bashing of it is uncalled for IMHO. Especially since you can demo it for free. Don't like it fine take a pass on it and move on!


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
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Negative comments are as valid and valuable as positive ones.

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I actually like Pianoteq (a little..there I said it) It's better then Ivory in my opinion.

Took me awhile to get the sound right, but now it's ok. (with help from this forum)

I got the Bechstein and the Petrof, then Upgraded to the middle version so I could play with the Microphones.

Then I realized I am way to lazy to waste my time with that. Wasted enough time setting up Garritan and Ravenscroft

I also got the Steinway pack with the upgrade and I must say the New York version really sounds good.
(plus I have no idea what a grand Steinway sounds like, so it's perfect.)

What I wish is that they would come out with a Cello and Violin pack so we could layer it over the piano.

That would be awesome.

Ron

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Negative comments are as valid and valuable as positive ones.
Yes they are but I did say Bashing the product it more then mere negative reviews laugh


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
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What I wish is that they would come out with a Cello and Violin pack so we could layer it over the piano.

That would be awesome.

Ron

Nah I would rather them concentrate on the keyboards. As in the Organ. I'm interested in the Organteq but I'm not going to pay the $299 price. If Modarrt has Organteq on a Black Friday sale I would be tempted to buy it. Funny this talking about tech in general has me a little sad as I was watching Synful Orchestra development and it just stopped. I thought his approach had merit.
For the money Synful is asking I would rather buy a known product that will be around to be developed.


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I just think trying to express a subjective issue in an objective way is totally fruitless. I have many vst's including Pianoteq. To my ears, they all go in and out of favor at various times for so many reasons. The monitors I'm using, the room they are in, the EQ settings I play with, the keybed and it's settings I am using on that day, but most importantly, my aging ears and general health, which tends to vary also from day to day, I get sick of chasing eq settings around, only to find the original settings sound good on another day.
I've had Pianoteq for a number of years now, and have never really got into it, until recently. Along with getting the settings right, and finding my favored piano, I still find if I play it with the same settings in a different acoustic environment I then don't like it again.This goes for all the sampled piano vst's I own too.
I can set it up to my liking one day, and without change, lose enthusiasm the next. Gosh, I'm the same with my real acoustic grand, some days I'm in acoustic heaven, other days I wonder why I don't like the sound. As has been repeated ad nauseam, there isn't objectively a best, they are all best at a point in time for someone's ears!

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