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I get notices all the time about the problems the AFM pension fund is having.

The internationally-known jazz musician I tune for was telling me, when I told him that everyone needs some business savvy, that he wished he had had that, and that he has needed help from his family over the years.

I asked a performer who spoke at a social club I belong to about that recently. He said that he has a good lawyer who goes over contracts with him to keep him out of trouble (his Attorney Bernie?), and that he had realized that if someone wanted him to perform, he was doing it because they wanted him to perform, rather than them offering him a favor by giving him an audience.

I am from Norway, and still live there. I have been teaching since about 1990, as well as freelancing as a pianist in a variety of jazz/blues/rock settings. Up here, every city is required by national law to have a voluntary music/culture school for children and youth up to the age of 20. Those schools teach everything from instruments to theatre, dance, and visual arts. Many musicians work part or full time there, in addition to gigging. I did the same until 2013, when I got a university position as Associate Professor of Music. It is possible to work full time with half decent pay as a musician in Norway without being a "star", but a steady job as a bottom line is truly great. It also makes it possible to experiment and delve into non-commercial approaches to whatever you want to play. And then, of course, there are state grants and public support for the arts...

That sounds like an awesome deal for you! I think other countries do a better job that the US in supporting artists in general.

And, per a previous post, going into debt for $250K for a degree in music should be avoided at any cost. If one is not good enough to get a scholarship or a free ride at a music school, then look elsewhere for less costly options either in amount of tuition or other scholarship options! They are out there, and, in reality, no one in the gigging world really cares if you have a music degree, but there is a lot to be said for going through this process to become a better musician. I got my music degree at a state university and left with minimal debt because tuition was minimal, also sometimes working in another field part time. I had quality, pro teachers and was happy with the experience in general.

Playing jazz as a living is basically a dead end. The only true jazz club in my city closed down years ago. a few restaurants have regular shows and charge a $10-20 cover. It's the same players from 20 years ago.

Before the pandemic I used to do solo piano gigs at senior homes and private parties. I charged $100/hour back then. All private gigs stopped when the virus hit and I don't know if people are keen to let strangers in their homes now. Had some weekly restaurant and hotel gigs which were decent. A comped meal each time and no one cares what set list you play.

The best gigs were Christmas and New years eve parties. Made like $400-600 for those ones playing just a few hours. And you get food and drinks. But that's 2 days out of the year.

I'll admit when I started out I played some for peanuts just to get experience. What's some crazy or interesting gig offers people have had?

Most interesting one was a ski resort offered a free day pass in exchange for playing at their lodge/restaurant. But I had to bring my own gear and figured hauling it in the snow was too much hassle. Ended up not doing it.

I totally agree about getting a degree in music with a bill of 200K or more should be avoided, at least for me.
I remember overhearing 2 guys discussing this at a bar jam session. One was totally disgusted. He envisioned playing in a religious tv type band as one way to pay off Berkeley. Wonder if they have stats on how long it takes to pay off tuition there for the average student going into music? I read some people are still paying off tuition into old age at some schools.

This pandemic has screwed musicians. Things may be getting better with the jab, but with people quitting jobs or only working from home it obviously still effects businesses. And there are reports some people are on short fuses that do go out. With road rage and gun violence I think a lot of people are just going to stay in their comfort zone at home and cocoon more with the remote unfortunately.

Never. They will die with that debt. According to Berklee's tuition page, it is roughly $75,000 per year. Berklee doesn't have enough students to be forced to comply with HEOA earning potential disclosures, but most third-party sites put the average salary for a grad between $25,000-$30,000.

Even if we assume a 50% financial aid package, that's still $150K in debt.

I know roughly a dozen folks who are either graduates, former instructors, or just attended a year or two before bailing. The universal consensus is that if you can afford the degree without having to go into debt, it is an absolutely fantastic school with great gear, programs, instruction, and an excellent alumni network in the industry. Otherwise, you are setting yourself up for debt peonage.

Wow, 75 thought it was 50k.
Last person I talked to few years back got a degree there but had big debt. Then that fed program whatever it's called, to forgive or cut the amount of a loan to whatever you are making came about, and he was planning for that to get him out or help with the debt.
He went to Nashville last I heard trying to get a road gig.

My son auditioned at Berklee and they offered him a $12K per year scholarship when tuition was around $50K. Our budget didn't allow for that, and it probably wasn't the best fit for him, so he ended up at major conservatory with scholarships that allowed him to graduate debt-free.

As a follow-up to my earlier post, he's currently in the midst of a 10-day stretch in which he has 11 paid gigs. He's not getting rich but he's supporting himself and doing what he loves. He's even managing to save a little for retirement while still in his 20s.

Like everybody, I have no answers either, but observing the society from outside you'll notice that these days people tend to pay more for useless "services" (e.g. subscription to useless smartphone apps) and less for "real" things, such as healthy good food, durable goods, and "real" services such as enjoying music.

Not that being a musician has ever been easy (if you haven't already, read Mozart's letters to the father to see how disgruntled he was against the people who "paid" him, particularly the archbishop, but not only him: also the many that instead of giving money got away with petty gifts). Yet these days the public thinks that music should be paid "peanuts" and the digital revolution made it possible for famous artists to become rich with relatively inexpensive music. I suspect the public somewhat expects that the "cost" of a performance is very low, without factoring the scale factor that a less popular artist reaches a smaller audience and will definitely struggle to make a living....

Berklee like all US colleges are so overpriced. $200k could get you the best teachers in the world for private lessons for a lifetime.

However, private lessons are only a third of the deal; the remaining two thirds is - playing in ensembles. Very different from classical music education.

I play jazz and am self taught. Went to jams, organized meetups. If you want to learn it badly enough you'll find a way. I did go to some teachers but nothing long term.

I guess an important reason why a lot of people goes at such places as Berklee is not just because of the musical education but because they expect that being there will help them to make contacts that facilitate their way into music industry. At least that's an important point that Berklee itself highlights in their own website when they brag about how many famous musicians and grammy winners they have. If you don't care about those things and you just want to learn music even at pro level, you just need to hire a local teacher able to guide you, and that will cost you peanuts compared with Berklee fees. I remember some time ago watching a video from a Ted Greene lesson, a guy commented that would have been more useful to him than music school, but unfortunately he was immigrant and was forced to go to music school, otherwise police would kick him out of the country.

I really believe that these three suggestions should be taught and required at every music school as part of the curriculum with the first one being the most important.

discernment
/dəˈsərnmənt/
noun: discernment
1. the ability to judge well.
"an astonishing lack of discernment"
Most do not have this trait and this should be a required course. Quit daydreaming and really ask yourself are the returns worth the expense and effort. Do I have what it takes to make it as a professional musician.

Everybody needs to have basic knowledge of music law
What is Music Law?
Music law is the law that affects the music industry. Music is commercially bought and sold in the United States and around the world. Any law that impacts how the music industry does business is part of music law. Music law includes any laws of any kind that apply to the business of creating, selling, performing and listening to music. Music law is a part of entertainment law.
Who does music law impact?
Music laws impact most people in society in one way or another. Music law impacts the people who write music and the distributors who purchase the rights to perform and sell music. Music law also impacts performers who must have a legal right to perform music. Businesses that seemingly have no relation to music law like restaurants must ensure that they comply with music laws when they conduct business. Even consumers must follow music laws.

Simple Bookkeeping
Bookkeeping is the process of keeping track of every financial transaction made by your music business from the booking of the gig to the end of the gig. Time spent,gas,food,special sheet music,power strips, TUX rentals and so on you get the picture if you don't charge for it you pay for it.

dpvjazz those things are the business of music. Sadly regular schools don't teach financial literacy that's why people think going 200K into debt to get a degree is good.

Most people are better off buying a home or something else. Talent alone won't get you anywhere. I've seen many musicians go to Youtube and set up their own channel. Some are great others ok. It's the entertainment factor now.

Get as many eyeballs viewing your videos and get ad revenue lol. During the pandemic alot of them were doing live streaming concerts and getting donations for song requests. Seems like a good way to gig, you don't even need to leave your house!

In checking an online list of what someone listed as the best places to get a jazz studies degree (Berklee was not listed, by the way), the tuition ranged from $10K to over $60K for a year. That is just tuition, not living expenses, books and materials, etc. Berklee is just one of many places to get a jazz education. The tuition at my state school, over 10 years ago, was about $4K a year. As mentioned before, go for a lower price tuition considering what field you will be entering. Being in massive debt is no way to start a career.

As far as private lessons, I agree with the the poster above. One can get a lot of value of out of private lessons. Since piano was never my main instrument when I got my degree, as I progress through private jazz piano lessons that are way better than any lessons I had in a university setting, I wish I had taken the private lesson route, aspecially as an older student, vs. the degree route. And, my jazz piano teacher graduated from a respected conservatory, not Berklee.

As far as how Berklee seems to push the idea of how making contacts that can last a lifetime is a thing, I agree there is some truth to that. But,, if you are not planning on living in Boston after graduating, that could be a challenge. But, there are other ways to make one's inroads into their local music scene by getting out there and getting heard at jam sessions, supporting jazz in your local community, attending others' gigs hosting jam sessions at home if possible, finding gigs and inviting the players you want to play music with to be on your gigs as a leader. If one is truly a good player, and easy to work with, word will get out.