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Joined: Jul 2012
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peterws Offline OP
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Where'ya putting your money?
And which is going to triumph?

Seems to me that VSTs are gaining in popularity, the DPs maybe waning somewhat which, given a little time, could well bring about big changes. . .
I find myself eagerly awaiting such.


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As DP evolves, there is a diminishing return in using virtual pianos.

My CLP150 had only 3 layers, no blend, then most virtual pianos was a huge improvement.

My N1X has a far more evolved tone generator, then I am less motivated to use some virtual piano.


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Margins for software generally are higher for software than they are for hardware; there also is a scalability factor as the cost of selling one additional VI is nil. And modern large and cheap RAM & SSDs now are big enough that a consumer laptop can run some massive and realistic VIs.

Good hardware design and production is expensive and complex. In many countries, extensive regulations around labour, the environment, etc. discourage local production.

The market for music and musical instruments has been in long-term decline, so that would discourage development both in hardware and software. IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
As DP evolves, there is a diminishing return in using virtual pianos.

My CLP150 had only 3 layers, no blend, then most virtual pianos was a huge improvement.

My N1X has a far more evolved tone generator, then I am less motivated to use some virtual piano.

I am with Frederic on this one. My CA79 sounds great. The VSL I got are better, but I could easily live with sounds coming from my CA79.

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Especially with Stage Pianos, people do not care for sound sophistication as much as studio producers (who use VST more often), because most of VI pianos benefits are lost with PAs or even more wtih DP internal speakers. Including VI mulit-gigabyte library in DP would be beneficial only for headphone users. Most live gigs are still done with mono and everyone who played live gig with VST knows that those gigabytes are not always better. That's why Nords with ~200MB piano sample is so popular around the world.


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I may change my mind in the future, but right now, I can't imagine being happier with a hardware DP than I am with Pianoteq and my VPC1. Things can only get better from here; I'm looking forward to the next PTQ upgrade.

I guess I also see this as comparing my parents' console stereo (a piece of furniture) with the stereo components that replaced that for my generation. The ability to upgrade individual components of your "rig" just feels right to me. A hardware DP seems like a drum kit where you can't swap out the snare... frown


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I'm putting my money on DP's with a few good sounds plus easy connectivity to tablets, mobiles and PC's. My Yamaha P121 uses a single USB cord for midi and digital audio in and out. I can plug the cord into my mobile and be playing a piano from my mobile through the DP's speakers in 3 seconds flat.

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Well, I got srprised when I played the Pianoteq U4 which Yamaha don't seem to have got round to making yet.
I does seem better than anything else including their new Petrof.
That set me windering how they'll address the all inportant question.
Emenating sound surround from just two stereo speakers (h'phones) and the rather different feel of the acoustic keys.
I suspect the acoustic volume/force curve/line is most likely complex and assuredly not straight!.


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Originally Posted by peterws
Well, I got surprised when I played the Pianoteq U4 which Yamaha don't seem to have got round to making yet . . .

Saw a demo of the new Yamaha YC88 a few days ago and it has a great a sounding Upright piano (go to 09:15) as well as new grand piano samples:


Last edited by Craig Richards; 06/21/21 07:20 PM.

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A better demo of the YC series Upright Sound here at 01:08



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The original questions was: Where'ya putting your money?

I've put lots of money into both. But I've not bought a new VST in some time. And I expect my next piano to sound good enough that I can forego VSTs altogether.

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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
As DP evolves, there is a diminishing return in using virtual pianos.

My CLP150 had only 3 layers, no blend, then most virtual pianos was a huge improvement.

My N1X has a far more evolved tone generator, then I am less motivated to use some virtual piano.
same here. My ES7 sounds great, VSTs sound hardly better, not enough to justify the "hassle" of connecting a PC, having to use a screen to configure anything and so on (it is a hassle after all)
my P80 on the other side, which is not amplified anyway, found a new life using VSTs
for my next DP I will definitely look for a line input (which the entry Kawai CA do not have, I just found out frown )

Last edited by Nigo; 06/22/21 02:18 AM.
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Originally Posted by Nigo
[quote=Frédéric L]
for my next DP I will definitely look for a line input (which the entry Kawai CA do not have, I just found out frown )
Line input is good but along side that also look for digital audio in/out. DP's are now having USB midi and USB audio return for crystal clear sound even in some lower end DP's like Yamaha P121/125 and Numa Compact 2x. No need for line inputs in those for most purposes.

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DP's and VI's need to merge. What we really should be playing already now is digital pianos with upgradeable sounds. It's inane having to upgrade hardware, merely to get the newest samples, especially in the light of the glacially slow improvements in hardware.

The one area where the digital pianos really need improvement, namely having loudspeakers that make the instrument actually sound like a grand, or an upright, does not seem to be paid more than lip service; the manufacturers boast of wattage, and numbers of speakers, but never really address quality.


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Originally Posted by Jonky Ponky
Line input is good but along side that also look for digital audio in/out
yes, but the most recent DP with the latest USB connectivity usually also have the most decent sound out of the box

Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
DP's and VI's need to merge
I agree, but for many reasons, this is not going to happen anytime soon

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I can do without audio input on a piano. I need neither analog line input nor USB digital input.
The piano's speakers are crap. So I don't want to take my nice, clean virtual instrument sound and feed it to those crap speakers.
Originally Posted by Jonky Ponky
Line input is good but along side that also look for digital audio in/out.

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they usually do their job of making a clear piano sound and not muffled as most non-monitoring speakers do (even good ones)
so this all depends of your set up

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My experience is quite the opposite. The piano speakers are muffled. Not the worst speakers in memory, but pretty far down the list.
Originally Posted by Nigo
They usually do their job of making a clear piano sound ...

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Digital with near acoustic action and good VST - currently eyeing the VSL Boesendorfer...


[Kawai VPC1 / ES100 - VSTs: VSL 280VC, Garritan CFX, Pianoteq 7 Standard & VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 - Ableton Live - Presonus iOne / iTwo - Sennheiser HD700/6xx - Presonus E5+T10, iloud micro monitors]
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
DP's and VI's need to merge. What we really should be playing already now is digital pianos with upgradeable sounds. It's inane having to upgrade hardware, merely to get the newest samples, especially in the light of the glacially slow improvements in hardware..

As far as I'm aware Dexibell provides sample library and allows You to use additional samples via USB
https://dexibell.com/prodotto/vivo-h7-2/?lang=en/#sound-h7

Maybe other manufactures will follow their example.


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