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Hi there, I have been lurking at PW for some time and this is my first post here!

I'm now considering upgrading to a 7' grand. Since I'm living in an apartment, the silent feature is a must. Now playing a C3X-TA but found the silent feature somehow changes the touch and makes the touch heavier, plus changes in sound (Yamaha samples sound from CFX). Now I have my eyes on three grands.

Bösendorfer 214VC Disklavier Pro
Just found one that just arrived less than two weeks ago at a dealer, and tried it a few days ago.
Pro
- The sound is wonderful and it sings marvelously.
- Touch is impressive. More responsiveness than my C3X. For some reason, the friction is also better. My hands tend to be more sweaty on my C3X.
- It comes with manufacturer installed silent + player features all in the Disklavier system. The consistency in touch w/ or w/o silent feature activated is quite good, clearly better than my C3X-TA now.
Con
- My only concern is on the player system: it seems that when the volume is adjusted to the minimum, the treble is suppressed way more than the bass, which makes the whole replay distorted (bass stands out too much like only the left hand is playing). The manager told me that the piano has little prep and it can be fixed by onsite calibration and regulation once delivered.

The piano is actually a special order from a customer but the customer decided to go with 280VC. So it is offered for $114k + tax. Financing available at 7% for 5 years.

Steinway model B Spirio R
Tried a brand new one at a local gallery last week.
Pro
- Typical Steinway sound.
- Touch and reaction are as good as expected for a Steinway
- Player system is integrated like an art with the piano from appearance (it does not look different than any regular model B other than the power cable), functionalities (super user-friendly editing tools, volume control is very consistent across all levels and registers) and app design (UI and responsiveness better than the Disklavier)
Con
- Unfortunately, Steinway does not install a silent feature (not even with the Spirio R) and it has to be done by 3rd party.
- Financing (via 3rd party) is only available to US citizens, not even PR.

Asking for $157k + tax or (125k + tax for a regular B), not including the cost to install the silent feature by 3rd party, which could cost ~$10k. Sales also suggested that the price is going up around 5% every year, and given the recent inflation trend, the number for this year will only get bigger.

Fazioli f212
Tried a new f212 last week at a local dealer.
Pro
- Top-notch craftsmanship that can be felt at the first sight.
- Sound and touch are clearly better than other onsite (used) Steinway grands.
Con
- No silent feature by default. The manager called Fazioli and told me that Fazioli can install the feature in the factory as a special order. Basically they bought the system from a Germany brand AD silent and install it on their own, which is claimed to be the best one in the market. Turn-around time is more than 6 months. The only way to experience the system is to visit Fazioli's Italy showroom at Milan or factory.

Asking price for the regular f212 is $137k + tax. The sales manager said he needs to check the EUR-USD exchange rate to see how much lower he can go as he needs to replace it if it is sold.

My questions are
- How does a 3rd party installed silent feature perform compared to the factory-installed ones like Disklavier. How does it affect the resale value? Has anyone heard about the Germany AD silent system before? Is it really the best in the market as the manager claims?
- Is the register inconsistency at different volumes an unknown issue on the Disklavier system?
- Pricing wise, Steinway seems to be the most demanding, not sure how lower they can go. What is the typical discount Steinway can offer? I understand that this may probably depends on the area but still wonder the ball park numbers.

Last edited by Teleri; 06/19/21 05:57 PM.
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I suggest asking the Bosie dealer to calibrate and regulate the piano before you buy it to see if the problem with the player system can be fixed. It seems strange to me that a 114K would have had only "little prep". I would be shocked if the dealer wasn't willing to accommodate you.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I suggest asking the Bosie dealer to calibrate and regulate the piano before you buy it to see if the problem with the player system can be fixed. It seems strange to me that a 114K would have had only "little prep". I would be shocked if the dealer wasn't willing to accommodate you.

That is a good point! It was air freighted in last week and freshly out of the crate, possibly waiting for some prep.

I actually found the similar issue with another Bosendorfer 170VC Disklavier at a different local dealer but not on a Yamaha CFX with the same Disklavier system. So I just wonder if this is related to prep/calibr or anything else.

Last edited by Teleri; 06/19/21 07:31 PM.
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Fazioli: I would be very hesitant to buy a silent system that I hadn’t personally played. ..., but that’s just me.

Is a decent digital with headphones a consideration?


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If a silent system is a must then your best option is Yamaha or Bösendorfer, with Kawai’s system a close runner up. Other makes will install silent systems but I’ve yet to be that impressed with any of them.

A third party silent system can be very costly, and honestly you might be better buying a separate digital piano


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Originally Posted by dogperson
Fazioli: I would be very hesitant to buy a silent system that I hadn’t personally played. ..., but that’s just me.

Is a decent digital with headphones a consideration?

Me too here. That is why I probably have to visit their showroom in Milan or the factory before going that way if I really want a Fazioli.

Well, the space in my living room probably cannot allow a grand and a keyboard at the same time. I do like playing the acoustic piano when possible but also need the silent feature to practice during quiet hours. So the best solution to me seems to the an acoustic grand with silent feature.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Fleetwood
If a silent system is a must then your best option is Yamaha or Bösendorfer, with Kawai’s system a close runner up. Other makes will install silent systems but I’ve yet to be that impressed with any of them.

A third party silent system can be very costly, and honestly you might be better buying a separate digital piano

Right, that is what I think right now. I'd better consider Steinway or Fazioli next time when silent feature is not a must anymore.

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1. Aftermarket stuff usually adds no value or takes away from it, in my observation of the resale market. But even factory player systems can do that, as most of these larger models are shopped by professional players and institutions (who look at such systems as a maintenance liability or a gimmick that might be obsolete in a decade or two). These are “forever” pianos, so resale value would be low on my list, honestly. Factory systems are preferable because they should be backed by the factory warranty, instead of a third party.

2. Sounds like the Enspire system on that Bösendorfer needs calibration or the action needs regulation. A store that knows they have a serious customer for a 6-figure instrument would do well to get that sorted out immediately and call you back for a re-audition.

3. There is no typical discount from a S&S dealer. Some stores are independently owned, single locations. Others are conglomerates. More and more are company-owned stores. Some stores pay cash for their inventory, while others finance their floor stock. I know of S&S dealers who’ve charged full MSRP for their flagship brand, and have seen discounts of 10-15% from other dealers. Sometimes even more in times of economic distress or a dealer who might be about to close.


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Hi Teleri,

My thoughts are this - when a system is installed into a piano as an after market component, it is made to fit any piano. IOW, it is NOT made to fit any particular piano. I have installed many of these systems and a few have worked really well, most have worked reasonably well, and a few didn't work as we had hoped.

If you choose a system that is built specifically for a particular model, from an organization that has a wealth of experience in the field, you are much more likely to have a robust and satisfying experience.

Originally Posted by terminaldegree
1. Aftermarket stuff usually adds no value or takes away from it, in my observation of the resale market. But even factory player systems can do that, as most of these larger models are shopped by professional players and institutions (who look at such systems as a maintenance liability or a gimmick that might be obsolete in a decade or two). These are “forever” pianos, so resale value would be low on my list, honestly. Factory systems are preferable because they should be backed by the factory warranty, instead of a third party.

Right on the money, terminaldegree, but I digress with some of what you have said. In my region (Philadelphia), we are seeing more and more technology based pianos being purchased by professionals and institutions. Yes, technology becomes outdated, but if there is a real plan to update it over time, it will extend the useful life of the technology. And the capabilities are so incredible. For instance, being able to edit your recorded performance to change just a few notes is a real advantage over having to replay a piece for days to get the best possible recording.

Anyway, I hope I was helpful, Teleri.


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If I could chose among these three, I´d definitely go for the STEINGRABER C212.

It could be ordered with the excellent AdSilent-System featuring a modeled Steingraber concert grand with very good sound. Due to the patented mechanic integration from Martin Deuker, the action will not be affected by the silent system in a way that distracts from playing.

The Steingraeber might be halfway between the three brands, featuring crystal clarity from the Fazioli, a little warmer than the Steinway and Fazioli and more precise than the Bosie and a unique sound that makes me feel this is how a grand should sound and sing. Of course, it is a matter of personal taste... the action is great and the feel of the keyboard material is second to none in my opinion.

If you do not have a Steingraeber dealer in your region you might want to travel to Keith and play a few models. It is worth the trip I assume.

For the three models above, my guess is, that the Fazioli is the most "predictable" in sound. I would never ever buy a new Steinway B as the last ones I tested did not play in the top league (but they could if carefully prepped and selected). The Bosies are not so much to my taste so others could make more valuable comments than me.

Sorry for starting to throw in another option, but better now now before you get to play one after having bought a worse piano ;-)


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They are three very different pianos. Forget the silent system, don't you have a preference for a certain kind of piano? What kind of music are you going to play on it?

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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
1. Aftermarket stuff usually adds no value or takes away from it, in my observation of the resale market. But even factory player systems can do that, as most of these larger models are shopped by professional players and institutions (who look at such systems as a maintenance liability or a gimmick that might be obsolete in a decade or two). These are “forever” pianos, so resale value would be low on my list, honestly. Factory systems are preferable because they should be backed by the factory warranty, instead of a third party.

2. Sounds like the Enspire system on that Bösendorfer needs calibration or the action needs regulation. A store that knows they have a serious customer for a 6-figure instrument would do well to get that sorted out immediately and call you back for a re-audition.

3. There is no typical discount from a S&S dealer. Some stores are independently owned, single locations. Others are conglomerates. More and more are company-owned stores. Some stores pay cash for their inventory, while others finance their floor stock. I know of S&S dealers who’ve charged full MSRP for their flagship brand, and have seen discounts of 10-15% from other dealers. Sometimes even more in times of economic distress or a dealer who might be about to close.

Thanks for your comments! Will see if the enspire system works more reasonably after calibration.

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Originally Posted by Long Louis
If I could chose among these three, I´d definitely go for the STEINGRABER C212.

It could be ordered with the excellent AdSilent-System featuring a modeled Steingraber concert grand with very good sound. Due to the patented mechanic integration from Martin Deuker, the action will not be affected by the silent system in a way that distracts from playing.

The Steingraeber might be halfway between the three brands, featuring crystal clarity from the Fazioli, a little warmer than the Steinway and Fazioli and more precise than the Bosie and a unique sound that makes me feel this is how a grand should sound and sing. Of course, it is a matter of personal taste... the action is great and the feel of the keyboard material is second to none in my opinion.

If you do not have a Steingraeber dealer in your region you might want to travel to Keith and play a few models. It is worth the trip I assume.

For the three models above, my guess is, that the Fazioli is the most "predictable" in sound. I would never ever buy a new Steinway B as the last ones I tested did not play in the top league (but they could if carefully prepped and selected). The Bosies are not so much to my taste so others could make more valuable comments than me.

Sorry for starting to throw in another option, but better now now before you get to play one after having bought a worse piano ;-)

Thanks for the new perspective! I have never played Steingraeber before, nor the AdSilent-System. Should check it out once I have a chance. BTW, you mean Steingraeber factory in Germany by Keith?

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Originally Posted by Sonepica
They are three very different pianos. Forget the silent system, don't you have a preference for a certain kind of piano? What kind of music are you going to play on it?

Mostly classical pieces (baroque, classical, romantic, impressionism). If the silent system does not matter, the choice would less complicated ;-(

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Originally Posted by Teleri
BTW, you mean Steingraeber factory in Germany by Keith?

I think he meant Keith Kerman at PianoCraft in the Washington, DC area. A somewhat shorter plane flight for you than the factory.

Larry.

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Originally Posted by iLaw
Originally Posted by Teleri
BTW, you mean Steingraeber factory in Germany by Keith?

I think he meant Keith Kerman at PianoCraft in the Washington, DC area. A somewhat shorter plane flight for you than the factory.

Larry.

Definitely! Pianocraft seems to have a great selection and reputed knowledge.

A trip to the factory is a great experience and wholeheartedly recommended. It is a question of priority😀


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