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Hi,

Sorry, new to the forum and piano, I know those questions come often but I haven't read anything in the forum really comparing Roland F-701 to P515 (and RP-701). We are keen to have a piano at home and start learning it (parents and our two children, one is 4.5 year old and will start classes in a couple weeks), currently all we have is a CASIO SA-76 so quite a bit limited

We are looking for a piano which will give good sound, good key action, good fun playing at home and that we and our children wouldn't outgrow too quickly if we get into it a lot.

We were initially thinking about the P-125, but reading more it sounds like the P-515 would be a better choice to have a good piano to start with.

We went to a piano shop today, they didn't have the P-515 in stock, the seller was instead suggesting the Roland F-701 (AUD$2000) or RP-701 (AUD$2150) released this year or the YDP-164 (AUD$2000) with bench included.

The P-515 can be bought elsewhere for AUD$2328 including stand and 3 pedals (AUD$2000 for the P-515 itself + AUD$328 for the L515 stand and the LP1 3 pedal unit), and then a bench would add ~AUD$200.

Reading and listening to reviews, the P-515 seems to be well regarded with good options, good sound and the NWX keyboard seems well appreciated.

• I haven't found any comparison of F-701 vs P-515, has any of you had a look at them both, what would be the advantage/disadvantage of each one vs the other?
• What would you recommend would be the best option to buy and why?
• Portable vs non portable, we thought it could be good to have portable maybe?

We want to buy something that we will fully enjoy and not regret buying in the years to come. If the P-515 is worth the extra AUD$500 (including stand, 3 pedals and bench) compared to the F-701 then happy to go for this, if the F-701 is good enough then could be this one.

Or maybe you'd have other better suggestions as well around this price range?

P-515!


P.S.

IMHO!

Thanks @Pete14, any explanation why particularly?

Also, in the following video, the reviewer mentions that the P-515 keys are very heavy, is it an issue for beginners? Or just something that we'll get used to (thinking about the children as well)?

Sebeto, first off, welcome to the forum.



No, Pete14 usually posts these short answers without providing much explanation, just for the fun of it. So, I suggest you do not take his answer(s) seriouly. Pete does have a P-515 and seems to like it very much though.



Be prepared to end with more questions than answers.

About P-515 keys weight, this is a very controversial subject, some think it is heavy and hard to handle, others it is possible to handle and others like it very much.

The same happens, to a lesser extent, with the keyboard of these Roland models you mentioned: there were a few forum members who deemed it heavy, but for most that I remember of that own(ed) it, it seems to be OK or very good at its level. With Rolands, the issue in this forum is about the sound, some people just do not like it or do not think it is authentic.

That said, what was your impression about the two models? How they felt and sounded to you and your better half? (I am excluding the children from the question due to their age). If it sounded good and felt good and the price is fair, then you have your answer.

Thank you


The P-515 wasn't in store unfortunately, so we could not feel it. We haven't started to play yet, so it was hard to gauge the sound of the 701s and their real feel, I guess we should go back and try them more again and other pianos in the shop to compare

Hopefully some other members will also have good advices

Ah ah ah, not easy to decide for the first buy!

FWIW I do have some arthritis in my fingers, and badly in my thumbs. The piano keeps things working nicely; the P515 is a fast keyboard and suits me well.
I liked the sounds too, at first.

I've played pro for years in piano bars around the world. I've worked on many digital pianos as well as acoustic. They get hammered 5 hours a night, 7 nights a week by people like me and I've seen all the things that go wrong with them. I've been looking to buy myself a new digital recently. I have a beautiful Bechstein grand at home, so I'm always comparing to that. My first choice is the Yamaha P515. I tried much more expensive Nords, and many others. They all have pretty good piano sounds. For me, it was about the feel of the action. All I know is that the P515 felt great and enabled me to play well. I do have an extreme specialist style of playing though. Boogiewoogie. Very real, old fashioned, demanding piano style. This requires the bounce and response of a real piano. Older digitals fell short but a lot of the modern ones are pretty good now. Be aware of the difference between digital and hybrid, which uses a full, real piano action but digital sound. P515 isn't hybrid but has wooden keys and a very nice feeling electronic keyboard which is kind of similar to a real piano but lighter, with a sort of cut down version of a real, full action. All digitals have similar actions. A hybrid, having a full real action like Yamaha N1, tends to be better and like the real thing, but is very expensive. Now, the main thing is the weight. I'd have a hybrid but I can't carry it to gigs. So the P515 is heavy but movable. It is what's known as a slab piano. It sits on a stand and is portable. The Roland 701 is designed with an attractive stand setup to look nice in the home. Not so good for taking on stage, unless you have roadies to carry it. So, they'll both sound good. Both feel good. They look different. You need to play about with them and decide on feel, sound, and looks. One thing that goes wrong with these things is, over time and with heavy use, the cushion strip under the keys that stops them hitting the metal case with a nasty clunk can get worn and disintegrate. It can be replaced. Ive often had to do this myself. The other thing is the electronic contacts under the keys can become worn. This can also be replaced. Both these things should only happen after serious bashing has taken place. Just a heads up. I've blathered on quite enough. Good luck possums

Well, neither the P-515 nor those Rolands should be a "bad choice" per se.

There's then always the nitpicking, personal taste and more advanced players maybe bothered by the digital substitute not being just like the real thing and maybe having some technical limitations.

I've recently only played on an old Casio a little newer Kawai and a mediocre 80's upright, so I don't have an opinion on those models.

I’ve played classical piano for 35 years - not professionally but for my own enjoyment. For about 50 years I owned a beautifully restored Steinway model K upright - circa 1906.

I now own a P515. While I’d love and prefer to have an acoustic grand piano or still have my model K, I actually love my P515. It’s not a real acoustic but I’m at peace with it. I find the action just fine and very reminiscent of a grand piano action. Not super light but not unusually heavy either. To me when I play it I can be very expressive. If I ever decide I want to buy another and I had the funds I’d probably get a hybrid for the real action. I cannot speak to the other piano the OP asked about. Definitely they should try both. It’s such a personal and subjective choice.

If I were in your boat, I would test the following models against one another:

Kawai ES920
Roland FP90X
Yamaha P515

These are all at the same level, and represent about the best value for money.
I would say that without playing them, you won't get a good idea of which to buy.

The Kawai ES920 is the newest instrument, perhaps with the most nuanced piano tone. Certainly, it has a lightish action that compares well to the PHA50 action in the FP90X in terms of downweight. The sampling in the ES920 is at another level---very much better than the ES8 (which many think already led the way in terms of tone). Although arguably the ES8 didn't have the same sound fidelity as the Yamaha P515, the ES920 just blows the ES8 away on side by side.

I show this because Stu Harrison is good fun to watch play, as well as to show the improvement between the samples.


P515 vs ES920 (start clip at 09:31) [one of the few videos that puts the ES920 with the P515, but not greatest playing]


The Roland FP90X uses modelling (computer algorithms) to generate the sound i.e., no recording is used to generate the piano tone. It has the PHA50 action, much better than the one in the F701. Actually, of the three pianos, I like the PHA50 action but am less of a fan of their piano tone. These days, people use VST (software pianos) and their laptops to get the sound they want anyway, so if you like the action, there is always that.

The Yamaha P515 is the oldest of the instruments. The CFX grand with binaural sampling makes for a very high quality sound clarity, and for me, was a bit better in that department than it's competitors (FP90 and ES8). Where the P515 lacked was the detail within the tone. The tone is fairly nice but not the best CFX sample in the world (there are two VST sampled pianos which do a better job [Garritan CFX grand & VSL CFX]). However, the Bosendorfer sound on the Yamaha is nice for a certain type of music. Very nice. That said, the P515 doesn't have binaural sampling for it's Bosendorfer sound, something you'd get if you brought a 7 series CLP piano from Yamaha instead.

All in all, the Yamaha is a nice instrument too. The action is equal in quality but a little heavy for modern standards. One can get used to it.

This gives you a good appreciation of the Kawai versus Roloand sound



I honestly think that these instruments are quite well matched. Whilst the Kawai ES920 and Roland FP90X are newer, if one likes the Yamaha sampling, the P515 is still going to appeal.

That said, I'd definitely try them all out --- preferably in one music store so you can really get a good comparison. Buying blind, I'd go with the Kawai ES920, just because IMHO, the tone of the Kawai and the quality of the sampling is that bit higher. Yamaha will no doubt release a P515 update at some point, most likely called the P525.

I'll show this video from Stu Harrison to show you what you can get a digital piano to sound like if you use the best Virtual Studio Technology (VST) software piano sounds. Here, you use a laptop and the software interfaced with the digital piano, so that the digital piano plays a much higher quality sample.



Notice that Stu Harrison brought himself a Roland RD2000 with the PHA50 action with which he plays these VST's on. That gives you an idea of how nice the PHA50 action---many choose it, despite the Roland tone.

it seems an odd comparison to me

a more common comparison would be the p515 vs roland fp90x, which has a better action than the f701

the fp30x has the same action as the f701 and is cheaper (1099 aussie) and portable (but also has optional extra furniture stand and 3-pedal unit under 200 aussie each)

so it seems to me if you got the fp30x with stand and pedal unit you'd be getting essentially the same thing as the f701 for $600 less

in terms of the 'levels' of the actions of the two manufacturers

p515 = fp90x

p125 = (f701 = fp30x)

On these forums, the p515 and the fp90x are genuine competitors. i don't think the p125 (3 years old) is a genuine competitor for the fp30x (just released). others may (probably will) disagree

i'd be tempted to try another piano store if you can. The sales person you encountered might have been very good, but they also might not have been

I've found the written reviews on the pianodreamers website and the video reviews on merriam pianos' YouTube channel to be the best source of information, and these forums the best source for getting people's experience and opinions

good luck and let us know what you end up with

Welcome Sebeto
About this youtube channel:
It is a Roland and Kawai dealer. If he has Yamaha in shop, it is 2nd hand. In all his reviews Yamaha gets a bad taste. I would not say he is lying, but still: take his Yamaha->Roland/Kawai comparisons with a grain of salt.
I haven't played the P515, but you will get a lot of confirmation online, that the action belongs to the heavier ones. I can't tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing because this is personal preference. It should not be a problem for beginners, as long those are adults. But you mentioned it: children! Then: probably not. If possible, let your kids try that instrument, but don't buy it without playing before.

Anyhow: First you must know if you want to have a furniture model for home use only or a slab (=portable). The pro and cons are obvious: A furniture model looks nicer in your home, the pedal doesn't move on the floor and you have a keycover. A slab is something you can take to other places.

If your choice is a Roland 701, I would choose the RP. Why?
When not playing you should close the lid to protect the keyboard from dust. Dust that can croach between the keys and wear off the instrument. With F701 you have to remove sheet music every time, not with RP. It's simply more convenient. The only reason for F701 is if you need to save that few inches of floor space.

btw:
Yamaha CLP645 has same action as P515, you can try that one also. (CLP745 has a different and lighter action!)

+1. If your budget will accept them, that's a good list, better than the F701 and other "entry-level" DP's.

I even think the FP10 has the PHA-4, that is the same keyboard as the 701. I would not go the 701 way for all the reasons mentioned above
the HP-704 has PHA-50 thought, might be huge improvement if you want to stick with this kind of piano. It costs barely more than the FP-90...

Thank you all for the great pieces of advice!

I watched the videos shared here, read article after article, it feels like the ES920 will be the good choice, lighter action than the P-515 that'd be a bit better for the kids.

Back in stock in stores in a couple weeks here apparently, I'll try it then but it sounds like it's going to be the right one!

great choice !
the keyboard of a P515, although great to me, might be discouraging to the fingers of a 5yo child. The sound is also better on the Kawai
have fun

I really don’t think the action on the P515 is as heavy as everyone says. I’ve played acoustic pianos all my life and I really see no difference. Maybe I have strong hands or something but to me it feels real. In fact, I’ve played some acoustics that have horribly uncontrollable actions in comparison.

I did not like that clunking sound I heard when a key is pressed slowly all the way down on the es920. Also the p515 seemed richer to me in the bass.

My advice would be to test each one in person and make your own decision. It seems this is a very subjective decision to make

If I may, the P-515 only feels a bit heavy when the volume is turned down completely; once the volume is at an average (40/50%) it feels wonderful and responsive. Truly, the P-515 is the best all-in-one package in its category. IMHO!

I got a p515 about a week ago to go along with my acoustic.

Im still trying to figure out if I like it.
The action is heavy, like on certain acoustics, but that is not my main problem. The problem is that the action is actually very precise which will be a problem for a beginner. A key can go from subtle to a lion roaring with very little input difference. That requires accuracy.
This is not an action for beginners. However, and I dont know how to explain that, I find the action to be much more forgiving than on my acoustic.
Sound wise, still trying to figure it out, the prerecorded stuff sound good/great, I dont feel I get the same sound when I play, volume is much lower?
Midrange is super flat and boring, low end is amazing, high end is accurate and crisp.

There is some distortion at high volume, on the high notes.

On the bright side, the flow key app seems like a real cool tool for kids to learn.

that's not what I said, I said its heavier and that might be discouraging to a young child
I'm used to Yamaha's GH weight and it still got nothing on my parent's Petrof Model 3