Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Sgx 2 sound engine vs VSTs like CFX

Hi Guys.
Figured I’d ask the experts here about this comparison as we have no shops that remotely stock a korg Kronos or grandstage

Just wanted to know how the native sound engines from those two high end digitals stack up against a high quality vst like garritan Cfx?

Anyone here has the luxury of comparing them ?

Penny for your thoughts ?

Thanks in advance guys

Cheers

I know the sgx2 sound engine has 12 velocity layers and being that it’s built in sounds would have the velocity curves built for the rm3 action etc etc.

Anyone has a korg grandstage or Kronos to offer any feedback ?

Does it stack up against the likes of vintage D, garritan Cfx and VsL ?

Personally after hearing demos of the engine, I think it does stack up to the Vintage D. However, since the CFX from Garritan was recorded in a large hall, the hall ambience is better than that of a dry studio.
I forgot if the Korg engine has una corda samples, but if yes, then I think it would give the Vintage D some nice competition.

I don't know, but I will say that having built in sounds as nice as the Korg's is an awesome luxury. The thing that annoys me the most about my DP is having to connect my laptop and get it set up to run VSTs. The built in sounds in my Yamaha p121 are just not very inspiring, though not horrid. I just can't love them.

Here's a dive into the piano sounds. To me the close mics sound like mono recordings.

The sgx 2 sound engine is available in the grand stage , supposed to be unlooped 12 velocity layers both mono and stereo recordings I think. That sounds sweet. Will have perfectly calibrated velocity settings

I've recently owned the Grandstage 88. Sent it back. Refund processed today as a matter of fact. I had tried it before but was somewhat underwhelmed (and it was in a shop environment). I then learned more about the Korg and in particular that it needs some careful comparison of the nine or ten built-in velocity curves. The default power-up curve (4) is not really the best for the acoustic piano sounds although '9 wide' is a lot better. I had hoped that was the only reason I couldn't connect wth it.

Anyway, to cut a much longer story short, I just don't think the Korg's technical specs translate into a better playing experience. I now own Yamaha CP88 and for me it is a far nicer experience and I feel much more connected to it (much more!).

Yes, on the GS some of the APs have 12 layers and they all have loop-less samples - not necessarily particularly long samples though - some of the piano sounds are better than others in that respect. But I find them all a bit brittle and metallic sounding. There's just not quite enough body or woodiness in any of the AP sounds.

I also own Garritan CFX. I like it well enough but it's not my favourite piano sound because I find it a bit wooly and lacking in bite and it's difficult to dial down the room ambience if you want a drier sound. But I do find the CFX very playable - better than the Korg and overall I'd take the CFX over any of the Korg's piano sounds.

The Korg is a very nicely specified piano - there's some really great things about it. The action doesn't seem to garner universal praise but I like it. It's a very user-friendly board and if there's a piano sound you really like you would be happy with it. You could record it and it would stand a certain degree of scrutiny in critical listening - always assuming you actually like the tonality of the pianos. That said, the piano sounds do not, to my ears at least, conjure up that feeling of playing multi-gigs of massive, fat, in-your-face nine foot concert grands any more than something with (on paper) much more modest specs (Nord Piano, CP88, Kawai MP etc).

Anyway, my adventure with the Grandstage is over and all I can say is the impressive specs just didn't (for me) deliver a better experience. The specs are not a reliable indication of whether you're going to like something.

Well that about sums it up.

I share your thoughts on the CFX. The ambient sounds are very difficult to dial down..

Currently using a Korg D1.

only 4 layers but still the sound is pretty impressive for built in sounds.

I kept this because for me the action felt sturdier than the pha4 standard. Despite having only 2 sensors I thought the RM3 action was decent.

I plan on pairing it with Pianoteq though.

Thanks for the thorough response I'll definitely keep it in mind.

I'm jealous of you I tend to see a lot of piano vids from reviewers in the UK.

I'm a fan of Anderton's lol.. If I ever have the opportunity to visit the UK I'll make sure to visit that store.

Something I did notice a lot though was when played with consumer headphones the built in sound is much nicer and the connection with the piano was more apparent while playing. I was using a Motorola ANC500 headphones which isn't high end by any means but it still sounded better than the studio monitor AKGs I had which was more than twice the price.

But most likely the Korg isn't powerful enough to power the studio headphones so will get a headphone amp to pair with the setup.

Thanks for the input wrt to the Grandstage 88

But I have to admit Videos like this makes me wonder.

I know Piano sound preferences are very subjective and everyone has their own personal taste.

For anyone who wants a nice listen this was a pretty amazing demonstration of this Engine. (SGX-2)


Other than for critical listening purposes this is some pretty amazing playing

Enjoy guys.

I must've watched this many times. It was a big reason why I chose to give the Grandstage another chance. But Ben Allen (the video's author) now has a CP88 which he much prefers and which he rates above all others. Listen to his similar CP88 demo and tell me it sounds like it has inferior specs (which of course it does - but that just does not translate to the player's real world experience, or that of a casual listener).

Piano sounds are so personal and I can imagine many people would love the Korg's sounds.

I think the main let-down for me, leaving aside personal piano tone preferences, is that the nice RH3 action just doesn't quite connect with the sound engine as well is it could. I found it difficult to get a true pianissimo without compromising other aspects of the dynamics. Whereas the Yamaha just feels instinctively 'right'. Its response is exactly what you expect; since first unboxing it and switching it on I've never even tried the other touch curves because it's just so right (as was the Roland FP-90X but unfortunately I hated the sound of it).

If you like the tonality of PianoTeq partnering it with the Korg RH3 action would be a pleasing combination I think.

You couldn't have said it better than that..

I Agree with the Korg feeling a bit off even with the D3.

It's a bit more difficult to play..

Really and Truly I kept it for the higher quality action to be paired with Pianoteq.

In a few weeks my Midi cable will finally arrive and I'll be able to give it a full go.

Will be looking into the CP88 though. I'm sure Yamaha has some secrets up their sleeve just like Roland. Specs are mattering less in my brain with the advent of Pianoteq and smaller libraries that sound amazing. I think what really allows us to connect with the sound is the calibration of the velocity curves which coincide with the piano sound. The fine tuning behind the scenes. Probably why some folks swear by the likes of Nord etc..

Hopefully one day Id be able to try out a Nord myself.

From what I've read online they have quite the following.

It's easy to get sucked into the specs race with these things.

In the end what's best for you is what your gut tells you I guess.

Thanks for all the feedback guys

In countries like ours we basically rely on feedback from others because often you gotta purchase things sight unseen.

All the above being said, I would point out that the sound or samples from the Korg is lovely.

Despite My brain having to adjust how I play and not really feeling the "connection" initially.

The sounds coming out of the Korg D1 far surpasses lets say a Yamaha P105 which is almost the same price as the D1. I should say p125 now I'm guessing that is the current model. From what I understand the sounds haven't changed that much since the p105.


the upper register of the Korg sounds similar to the vintage D from Galaxy pianos.

not all of it but some of the notes have that nice sweetness particularly Upper C note and surrounding notes.

Despite only having 4 velocity layers built in the D1 sounds pretty amazing.

And the longer I play it the more I guess my brain and fingers adjust to it, increasing that connection . If that makes any sense.

It's good that the Grandstage 88 has built in velocity curves. I really think the velocity curves makes a big difference with that connection to the musician .

Keep in mind my brain switches from using 100 year old acoustics to the Kayserburg uh132 I have . I adjust to whatever I'm playing as long as it is within playable parameters.

If that makes any sense lol

You would think the 4 velocity layers affects the character of the sound... IT affects it a lot less than I expected.

Great Attack.

Decent sounds at normal playing levels.

Pianissimo does suck a bit its difficult to get that with the Korg.

But again, your brain adjusts.

Pianissimo sucks with most older instruments (acoustic) and I've grown accustomed to that.

When the Felt hardens its almost impossible to get the soft delicate sounds...

Ok time for me to shut up now.

Thanks again guys.

I had Grandstage (sold it before the big software update from Korg). Does it stack up against top VI libraries like Garritan or VSL? No, it doesn't (maybe better than some 2-tier libraries). Is it "better" than other digital pianos? I believe technically it is, piano sounds are more complex, sophisticated. Does it mean you will like it better than let's say Nord or Kawai? No, it doesn't Btw. I sold the Grandstage to the guy, who was unhappy with brand new powerfull laptop + Keyscape and he said Korg is so much convenient and pleasure to play, so who knows (I moved to VSTs after selling it :P).

If you have a chance to try Grandstage, make sure to set proper velocity curve and play with 'dynamics' knob: the combination of both can help you achieve results you're after. Default settings are somehow not adjusted to the action and the result is that on most of YT demos it sounds too bright and no to much dynamic. I can share some of my YT videos or Soundcloud recordings with Grandstage, so you can get some impressions.

Yea that will be nice to have some recordings to really listen to..


I wonder if I can adjust the settings on my D1 to allow softer playing.. Never really looked into it.

either way I think the built in sounds are quite lovely. Much better than the Yamahas in this price range I've played.

Not the same as the SGX engine but I have to give it to Korg they do have nice samples. It's just the issue with the velocity settings I think . And the control. Or lack thereof... but then again I'm accustomed to playing really old Acoustic pianos with very little control to begin with.

Off to google I am again to check on how to adjust my D1.

I'm surprised the RM3 action doesn't get that much attention Its really nice.

Feels a lot like a new Kawai Grand Piano that was donated to the in the University of the West Indies.

I was pleasantly surprised by the feedback of the action.

That being said I am aware that it is still a 2 sensor action but strangely enough it doesn't really affect my playing. Not really into the fast trills and repeat notes I guess..