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Joined: Sep 2016
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Hope you guys might help me. Ive mapped out the entire regard and ready to go in learning it but I have one issue.

Its the repeated grace notes in measure two, etc. Would you guys play this as 2 against 3? Or play the two left hand grace notes in line with the last two right hand grace notes?

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Also, the following 4 and 3 grace notes and other similar events in this work.

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You could try contacting Brendan Kinsella, who is one of the moderators. I believe he has played all 20 Regards.

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What does Yvonne Loriod do?

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I heard Yvonne Loriod play it at Mills College many years ago, and what I recall about her performance was that it was a solid, literal performance, fine for a first performance, but not the best possible performance. You have to read beyond the notes, and play the nuances that appeal to you best. If you are not convinced, your audience will not be, either.


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And after looking at the score, I would think that the grace notes start at the same time in both hands, and the principal notes are played simultaneously. If the two were to be played along with the last two of three, then it would have been notated with both slurs with the first grace note in the right hand in both hands. He uses some pretty unusual slurring in some of his other pieces, which tends to reenforce the idea that he would have done that.


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Originally Posted by BDB
I heard Yvonne Loriod play it at Mills College many years ago, and what I recall about her performance was that it was a solid, literal performance,
That's how I was taught to play Messiaen.

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Going by the forums page, I thought this was going to be a post about footballer Messi....ha

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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Originally Posted by BDB
I heard Yvonne Loriod play it at Mills College many years ago, and what I recall about her performance was that it was a solid, literal performance,
That's how I was taught to play Messiaen.

Sometimes you have to advance beyond your teaching. Actually, she did stray from the score once. (Yes, I did follow the score as she played. So did Messiaen!) There were some repeated figures where she left out one repetition.


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I was especially commended for my Messiaen on my diploma exam. In my book it's all about accuracy and touch.

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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
I was especially commended for my Messiaen on my diploma exam. In my book it's all about accuracy and touch.

And I commend you on that commendment!

BTW, I think there's a thing that it's even more about: basic feel for that music

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Originally Posted by Mark_C
BTW, I think there's a thing that it's even more about: basic feel for that music
That's pretty meaningless.

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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Originally Posted by Mark_C
BTW, I think there's a thing that it's even more about: basic feel for that music
That's pretty meaningless.

Hey, I was giving you a huge prop!

(And no --- it's meaningful.) smile

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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Originally Posted by Mark_C
BTW, I think there's a thing that it's even more about: basic feel for that music
That's pretty meaningless.

Hey, I was giving you a huge prop!

(And no --- it's meaningful.) smile
Perhaps I was a little brusque. Sure, the listener needs to get a 'basic feel' but the performer requires a very subtle touch and, as I said, accuracy. If you 'feel' your way through the music you get mush.

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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Originally Posted by Mark_C
BTW, I think there's a thing that it's even more about: basic feel for that music
That's pretty meaningless.

Hey, I was giving you a huge prop!

(And no --- it's meaningful.) smile
Perhaps I was a little brusque. Sure, the listener needs to get a 'basic feel' but the performer requires a very subtle touch and, as I said, accuracy. If you 'feel' your way through the music you get mush.
I think you're misunderstanding what Mark_C wrote.

He was complimenting you on having a 'basic feel' (which I take to mean 'affinity') for the music, that you were commended for your playing. After all, not many pianists will touch Messiaen with a barge pole (- he's my least favourite French composer after Boulez smirk , and I don't have a barge pole long enough).

Personally, I never look gift compliments in the mouth (nor gift horses on their behinds) - I just receive them gratefully. (Hmmmm, can't remember the last time I was praised for anything...... cry)


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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^^ exactly ^^

(Thanks!)

I didn't realize he had misunderstood it till I saw that next reply, and I figured I'd just leave it where it was and see if someone else would help out.

P.S. Consider this "praise." grin

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In recent weeks, a local radio station has played the Visions de l'Amen and the Quartour pour la Fin du Temps. I have heard some of the former live, and the entire Quartet at a concert that I tuned for. I tuned for another performance of the Quartet, but it was a house concert that I did not attend. Some music takes some getting used to, and I feel I have done it in Messiaen's case. It took a while, which is a shame, because I have had many other opportunities.


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A good friend did her dissertation on this piece, there's her recording of all 20 listed here on her website, if this helps:

https://www.kislitsyna.com/solo


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