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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by pold
It really depends on the mics etc, try this clip for example, do you think the ES920 internal speakers sound this good in person, or does this recording exceed the expectations?

I believe this is a good representation of how the ES920 sounds through its speakers. However, the sound is perhaps a little drier than listening in person, as the mics are placed directly above the speakers and therefore less exposed to reverberations in the room.

Incidentally, those mics are $1200 for the pair...

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...microphone-set-with-piano-mounting-clips

Cheers,
James
x

Those mics are expensive, yes. Placed directly above the speakers, something you won't do with your ears as I said earlier, that's why in this case the recording to me sounds better than what you hear live playing the ES920. The mics in this case don't need to capture any room reverb, they are recording a sampled piano in wich the reverberation of the room is already present in the samples.

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Originally Posted by pold
The mics in this case don't need to capture any room reverb, they are recording a sampled piano in wich the reverberation of the room is already present in the samples.

This is not strictly accurate.

The reverberation is added by the piano’s sound engine. The samples themselves are pretty dry when the reverb function is turned off.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Here’s another video recorded with specialists mics, this time of the NV10.



Kind regards,
James
x

are you sure this is not direct audio? I can't see any mic used in the video.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by pold
The mics in this case don't need to capture any room reverb, they are recording a sampled piano in wich the reverberation of the room is already present in the samples.

This is not strictly accurate.

The reverberation is added by the piano’s sound engine. The samples themselves are pretty dry when the reverb function is turned off.

Kind regards,
James
x

I am not talking about reverb effect, but the room sound, which is captured by the mic, and has nothing to do with the sound engine.

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This has always been a slightly frustrating topic for me. Mics are never good enough to capture a digital, but people rarely complain about acoustic piano recordings, I suspect because it's the only option.

And in high-end DPs, especially Kawais, oftentimes the single biggest difference between models is the sound output. The sound generators are essentially the same across the likes of the CA-79, CA-99, NV-5S and NV-10S (I think), so line-out or USB recording makes no sense if you are trying to tell the speakers/soundboard output apart.

In the end, the easy answer is to just throw our hands up and repeat "there's no substitute for hearing it in person," but I wish there was a better/easier way.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
This has always been a slightly frustrating topic for me. Mics are never good enough to capture a digital, but people rarely complain about acoustic piano recordings, I suspect because it's the only option.
This is very true. I follow some piano related channels on youtube, most of them are proficient players and/or teachers or professors in music. Most of them have very nice and expensive grand piano's and most of them sound crap smile Yet, I have no doubts that the piano is very very beautiful in real life, it has to be. That said, I watch them for learning something, not for the quality of sound.

At the same time, we're used to listening to the line-outs of digital piano's or to VSTs, for me, this results in a clinical sometimes even artificial sound which I think is tiring.
So yes, you need to play and hear it in person. I was blown away by the NV5 in a room (not empty) with a slight reverb, the sound was no longer perfect but convincing and real. No wonder I ordered the NV5(S) smile

But why is there no recording of a Novus (or Yamaha equivalent) in a concert room while played beautifully? Compare them to a nice acoustic upright and acoustic grand piano?
There are a lot of very high-quality recordings of acoustic grand pianos which are a joy to listen to!


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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Oh no! That sounds so good that now I want to buy a Novus instead!
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Here’s another video recorded with specialists mics, this time of the NV10.

I can only say one thing about that. If you can afford it without regretting the money. Why not? Wait for what? Just do it and be happy with it. Then I would be happy to congratulate you in this forum on your purchase (no matter what brand).

Kind regards
MBiG


Analogue: Sauter - Hohner - Solton; Digital: Casio - [Kawai -> arrival sometime this century]; Acoustic: Everything that produces sounds during musical activity
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Here is one more point of comparison, a recorded N3X:


Yes, the nv10s is not the direct equivalent of the n3x but I'm going to keep comparing until Kawai offers a challenger 😇.
As Gombessa points out, it's best to hear in person - I can't wait to go back try the Novus S versions out.
I do remember that the nv5 convinced me more than the NV10 but it's been more than a year now, so all those videos may have influenced my judgement. The author of this one does say in the comments that they see the nv5 speaker sound as more "real and natural" than the NV10's.

I don't see a problem with a grand action and an "upright speaker setup" in the same model... Where is the NV20(s?) when we need it !?


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I own an old Roland FP-4, looking for a hybrid piano to upgrade to!

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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Here’s another video recorded with specialists mics, this time of the NV10.



Kind regards,
James
x

are you sure this is not direct audio? I can't see any mic used in the video.

According to one of my colleagues involved in the creation of this video, the sound was captured using 2 PZM microphones, however I do not know which brand/model.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by pold
The mics in this case don't need to capture any room reverb, they are recording a sampled piano in wich the reverberation of the room is already present in the samples.

This is not strictly accurate.

The reverberation is added by the piano’s sound engine. The samples themselves are pretty dry when the reverb function is turned off.

Kind regards,
James
x

I am not talking about reverb effect, but the room sound, which is captured by the mic, and has nothing to do with the sound engine.

Please re-read my post - I've added emphasis to the relevant part in the above quote.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Originally Posted by Marchelune
Here is one more point of comparison, a recorded N3X:
I do remember that the nv5 convinced me more than the NV10 but it's been more than a year now, so all those videos may have influenced my judgement. The author of this one does say in the comments that they see the nv5 speaker sound as more "real and natural" than the NV10's.

I don't see a problem with a grand action and an "upright speaker setup" in the same model... Where is the NV20(s?) when we need it !?

Let me put it on bullets here, hope it helps:
-For me, sound in NV-5 sound more louder and subtle saturated than NV-10, which sounds more like a sound that cames from another room rather than an "upward" projection of sound like it should be, ...but NV-10S fix that IMHO.
-The decision whether is a NV-5 or 10, should not come from the sound quality/projection/soundbord (or not), it should be only about the action, so I play the most challenging piece I know on both, and I make more mistakes on NV-5 than 10...for me the desition rely on mistakes I made playing both, and action feel.
-I should say also that cabinet space should be a problem, but NV-10 does not fit in my flat...and I make it fit somehow xD
-I don't see the purpose of having a N3X model type, rather than aesthetics. Maybe someting in the position of speakers, chance of placing a horizontal soundboard (i don't like it but it's personal, some people will like it). But action can fit a compact cabinet, electronics don't need space...so it's purely aesthetics from my point of view. A "if money doesn't matter" choise.

It's nice to test this NV's action with the real think side by side...I thing NV-10 is closer to grands, than NV-5 to Vertical "K" series acoustic pianos.
I don't see how yamaha/kawai will make this type of pianos better...hope they surprice us, but please let it be in 10 more years so I can enjoy muy purchase longer without regreat xD


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I totally agree. I have a doubt Rafael. Have you tried the NV-10 also? Is there a noticeable difference between NV-10 and NV-10S?


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Originally Posted by frosas
I totally agree. I have a doubt Rafael. Have you tried the NV-10 also? Is there a noticeable difference between NV-10 and NV-10S?
I didn’t try them side by side, I try NV-10 at the store, and NV-10S at home. Still I have the impression that S mode have better sound (deeper bass, better projection and louder volume).
action feels the same and improves on the UI are not significant to me. Still I can see there more sounds, and more virtual technician tweeks.
Some people are reporting issues with their NV-10 about hiss or noise coming from speakers that was fixed with S model, but I don’t know… I didn’t hear anything at the store.


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Originally Posted by Pete14
we should be celebrating (except for existing NV5\10 owners). wink

This existing NV10 owner is quite content with both the purchase and the news. But I was also one of the outliers who wasn't too bothered by the sound system (and it probably is true that those who ARE upset with the sound system are better pianists than I - not difficult!)

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I have received the NV10S as replacement of my faulty NV10.
I can report that my buzz/hiss issues are completely resolved. By reading on the forum about the changes in scope of this S release, I was almost sure that it would have fixed my issues... and that has been immediately confirmed after just touching the keyboard.
However, this S version does not only eliminate the defect myself and other customers had with the previous version... also the overall sound quality in terms of power, brilliance and expressiveness appear much improved. No need anymore to explore combinations of settings or look for WallEQ option to make it sound more realistic. It is just ok and totally enjoyable out of the box.

I do not perceive changes in the action, still great. The display is differently organized and more responsive to the touch... however, nothing too significant for my use.
Unfortunately it does not switch off after a while, it just turns dark as the NV10... that annoys me a bit.

Now after so many months I can finally say... wonderful instrument!

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Wow, that is really great. I am glad that I made the decision to wait for NV10s.

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Originally Posted by titowsky
Unfortunately it does not switch off after a while, it just turns dark as the NV10... that annoys me a bit.

Wow. After hundreds of complaints and 3 years of development they still can’t find a way to run a track from the MCU to the backlight inverter enable pin to shut that thing off properly...

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Originally Posted by Showpan2
Originally Posted by titowsky
Unfortunately it does not switch off after a while, it just turns dark as the NV10... that annoys me a bit.

Wow. After hundreds of complaints and 3 years of development they still can’t find a way to run a track from the MCU to the backlight inverter enable pin to shut that thing off properly...

What if it was never part of the design to ‘shut that thing off’ (completely)?

It turns out people have been asking for ‘always-on’ screens, and it seems like that’s what Kawai is going for here; a la Android smart phones, the screen is ‘always on’ displaying the time and/or other incidental information.

I wouldn’t mind being able to peak to my left at the Novus’ screen to catch a whiff of the current state of the market, the weather, and yes, our oldest companion, time!


Who’s with me for the always-on Novus?

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by Showpan2
Originally Posted by titowsky
Unfortunately it does not switch off after a while, it just turns dark as the NV10... that annoys me a bit.

Wow. After hundreds of complaints and 3 years of development they still can’t find a way to run a track from the MCU to the backlight inverter enable pin to shut that thing off properly...

What if it was never part of the design to ‘shut that thing off’ (completely)?

It turns out people have been asking for ‘always-on’ screens, and it seems like that’s what Kawai is going for here; a la Android smart phones, the screen is ‘always on’ displaying the time and/or other incidental information.

I wouldn’t mind being able to peak to my left at the Novus’ screen to catch a whiff of the current state of the market, the weather, and yes, our oldest companion, time!


Who’s with me for the always-on Novus?

The time and a timer would be nice too. :-)

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Originally Posted by rafaelzb
Originally Posted by frosas
I totally agree. I have a doubt Rafael. Have you tried the NV-10 also? Is there a noticeable difference between NV-10 and NV-10S?
I didn’t try them side by side, I try NV-10 at the store, and NV-10S at home. Still I have the impression that S mode have better sound (deeper bass, better projection and louder volume).
action feels the same and improves on the UI are not significant to me. Still I can see there more sounds, and more virtual technician tweeks.
Some people are reporting issues with their NV-10 about hiss or noise coming from speakers that was fixed with S model, but I don’t know… I didn’t hear anything at the store.

It sounds very reasonable that it might sound better because it has some speakers enhancements. For me it is very good news that Kawai continues improving the product, but I don't believe it is a clear case to upgrade from NV-10. I have never had the hissing issues, actually no issues at all. I am very happy with my NV-10. And as I live in a flat I can't play loud so maybe I could not take advantage of the more power delivered by NV-10S. Thanks for your report.

Last edited by frosas; 06/12/21 11:49 PM.

Kawai NV10, Pianoteq 7 (Steinway D, Bechstein, Electric)
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