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Originally Posted by playplayplay
Originally Posted by EPW
MIDI cables or USB cable for MIDI. Kawai has both but the Kawai doesn't have USB-audio.

And if I plug the USB cable for midi to my computer and I run pianoteq, I will have to plug another cable back to the es920?

Yes an audio cable. could be out form the mic/headphone out of the computer or a 1/4" jack out from a USB audio interface like the MOTU M2 as an example. The main problem with this is that some computers have crappy realtek audio chip that has to much delay to play VST instruments. If you have a MAC computer you should be good to go. Now newer Windows 10 laptops might or might not work out of the box. You pick your poison I like to say with computers. I find I like Windows 2n1 for my needs and spend the little $ on a budget audio interface if I need to use one to get low enough latency. YMMV.


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Originally Posted by EPW
Originally Posted by playplayplay
Originally Posted by EPW
MIDI cables or USB cable for MIDI. Kawai has both but the Kawai doesn't have USB-audio.

And if I plug the USB cable for midi to my computer and I run pianoteq, I will have to plug another cable back to the es920?

Yes an audio cable. could be out form the mic/headphone out of the computer or a 1/4" jack out from a USB audio interface like the MOTU M2 as an example. The main problem with this is that some computers have crappy realtek audio chip that has to much delay to play VST instruments. If you have a MAC computer you should be good to go. Now newer Windows 10 laptops might or might not work out of the box. You pick your poison I like to say with computers. I find I like Windows 2n1 for my needs and spend the little $ on a budget audio interface if I need to use one to get low enough latency. YMMV.

OK thank you for the explanation.
And a USB-audio will allow you to use the slab as a midi controller with only one cable? (hearing it back through the intern speaker of the slab)


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For what it is worth, just stopped in a store on my way to work and tried a P125.

So... it sounds better than it feel.

Feels like a toy. Sounds... sampling is not bad, but coming out of those tiny speakers, definitely not what I am looking for.

Last edited by proxy001; 06/07/21 02:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by proxy001
For what it is worth, just stopped in a store on my way to work and tried a P125.

So... it sounds better than it feel.

Feels like a toy. Sounds... sampling is not bad, but coming out of those tiny speakers, definitely not what I am looking for.

Take a look at the Kawai MP7se if you can find one.


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I owned the CP5 for probably eleven years. With both that and the CP4 (which I still own), I was a highly visible advocate on these keyboard forums.

Looking back since I sold the CP5 last Fall, yeah nothing about it resembled a piano...action or sound. I guess I was just sort of used to it and dug the different character of it for straight-ahead Jazz playing. It was smooth sounding and not harsh. But I don't miss it in the least. I think I would miss the CP4 though. It has a warmer sound then its replacement, the CP88. Although I hear the CP88 as sounding better (more presence and clarity) live in a group with bass and drums then the CP4.

I recently bought the best DP I've ever played, the AvantGrand N3X. My rationale at the time was -- I can take some wear and tear off the Steinway hammers doing repetitive drills of transposing lines and voicings to all keys. But to tell the truth, I don't play it that much. My piano is in a detached studio from the house.

The AG is very nice for what it is and looks great in our living room. But coming up on 4 months ownership, if I had it to do over again, I would have just got the P-515 for a fraction of the price. It would have functioned for the same purpose I'm using the N3X for. No matter how much dough you throw at this, it's still not going to be a piano.

I feel the P-515 is a decent compromise. It's been sometime since I played it but when I did, I felt it was Yamaha's best offering for straight piano I've ever played. Again I've long been a Yamaha guy for electronics -- P-120, S90, S90es, CP250, CP300, CP5 and CP4. And even owned two high end Yamaha acoustics -- C7e and S6- before the Steinway. I would like to have the P-515 for certain.

I'm not a Kawai fan by nature - acoustic or electronic- but you might find the comparable model to your liking.


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OK thank you for the explanation.
And a USB-audio will allow you to use the slab as a midi controller with only one cable? (hearing it back through the intern speaker of the slab)

Correct.

Note you need usb audio into the Keyboard for this to work.

P515 and Roland fp90x have this feature the Kawai es920 does not.


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Originally Posted by Purdy
Quote
OK thank you for the explanation.
And a USB-audio will allow you to use the slab as a midi controller with only one cable? (hearing it back through the intern speaker of the slab)

Correct.

Note you need usb audio into the Keyboard for this to work.

P515 and Roland fp90x have this feature the Kawai es920 does not.

Thank you very much. I really appreciate because it helps me understand some stuffs about that. I am not considering using vst because I want something easy right now. Press on and play.... But in a future who knows.
I was also wondering because the ES920 has 2 Bluetooth a midi and an audio one. Maybe it will be possible to do it though Bluetooth, without cables.


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he ES920 has 2 Bluetooth a midi and an audio one. Maybe it will be possible to do it though Bluetooth, without cables.

Nope Bluetooth Audio has too much latency for really time playing. Nice little feature to stream your iPhone, Android Phone tunes through your piano speakers if you want to.

Peace


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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
I owned the CP5 for probably eleven years. With both that and the CP4 (which I still own), I was a highly visible advocate on these keyboard forums.

Looking back since I sold the CP5 last Fall, yeah nothing about it resembled a piano...action or sound. I guess I was just sort of used to it and dug the different character of it for straight-ahead Jazz playing. It was smooth sounding and not harsh. But I don't miss it in the least. I think I would miss the CP4 though. It has a warmer sound then its replacement, the CP88. Although I hear the CP88 as sounding better (more presence and clarity) live in a group with bass and drums then the CP4.

I recently bought the best DP I've ever played, the AvantGrand N3X. My rationale at the time was -- I can take some wear and tear off the Steinway hammers doing repetitive drills of transposing lines and voicings to all keys. But to tell the truth, I don't play it that much. My piano is in a detached studio from the house.

The AG is very nice for what it is and looks great in our living room. But coming up on 4 months ownership, if I had it to do over again, I would have just got the P-515 for a fraction of the price. It would have functioned for the same purpose I'm using the N3X for. No matter how much dough you throw at this, it's still not going to be a piano.

I feel the P-515 is a decent compromise. It's been sometime since I played it but when I did, I felt it was Yamaha's best offering for straight piano I've ever played. Again I've long been a Yamaha guy for electronics -- P-120, S90, S90es, CP250, CP300, CP5 and CP4. And even owned two high end Yamaha acoustics -- C7e and S6- before the Steinway. I would like to have the P-515 for certain.

I'm not a Kawai fan by nature - acoustic or electronic- but you might find the comparable model to your liking.

Dave, your post is so much helpful because your situation ressemble mine.
I agree that no digital is ever going to replace a grand piano. Grand piano all have different characters and tones, but they have a pseronality, there is something rich about the harmonics so I cannot find on a DP.

Earlier I put on a pair of good headphones and listened to YouTube reviews of ES920/515. And in that environment I thought the Yamaha sounded more like what I am looking for. It does sound metallic, it does not sound like a grand but that is really an asset for my use. I thought the ES920 sounded more neutral, softer, like a real one.

I am probably going to go the 515 route, from what I read, the touch, the action is close to an acoustic and I thought the sound was interesting for a secondary piano, to play jazz and pop. ( Not sure I would use that to play Chopin)

Thank you again

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I was also wondering because the ES920 has 2 Bluetooth a midi and an audio one. Maybe it will be possible to do it though Bluetooth, without cables.

While Bluetooth midi is ok.

Bluetooth audio will have too much delay. At least that seems to be the case with the current crop of keyboards and computers. Perhaps with some of the newer low latency Bluetooth stuff it might be better.

You can give it a shot on your es920 and see what you think.

Bluetooth Audio is fine for playing along with an accompaniment.

I find the single usb connection to a computer especially handy for the new iPads snd iPhones which have dispensed with a regular audio output jack.

While not quite as simple as just turning on the keyboard, it can be easier to select and modify the vst running on a computer versus selecting via the keyboard menu. Especially something running on an iPad or I suppose other tablets.


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Originally Posted by proxy001
I am probably going to go the 515 route, from what I read, the touch, the action is close to an acoustic

Don't believe what you read, try and judge yourself. All of these are close to some acoustic but perhaps not the one you're used to. The P515 is "crusty", heavy at the top but then gives in (too?) softly. Kawais and Rolands are the other way around, soft at start, then give more resistance lower down.

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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
The AG is very nice for what it is and looks great in our living room. But coming up on 4 months ownership, if I had it to do over again, I would have just got the P-515 for a fraction of the price. It would have functioned for the same purpose I'm using the N3X for. No matter how much dough you throw at this, it's still not going to be a piano.

I feel the P-515 is a decent compromise. It's been sometime since I played it but when I did, I felt it was Yamaha's best offering for straight piano I've ever played.

I wholeheartedly agree about the P-515 being one of Yamaha’s best offerings in a while; especially when you consider all you’re getting for so little (1.5K).

This brings me to the other point touched by Mr. Ferris:

Is a hybrid worth all the fuzz?

Honestly, some days I think it is -worthy- and sometimes I think it’s not.

Like many here, I’m always thinking about what my next piano upgrade will be, and of course, the first thing that comes to mind is a hybrid; “duh, it has a grand piano action”, but then I think about something like the CLP-785 -for about half the price- and contrast that with how much my P-515 already gives me, and I’m back to square one.

Is this pull towards a ‘real’ action based on facts or on unresolved emotions?

Do I want a ‘real’ action because it’s quantifiably better or simply because it makes me feel better?

What can I do on the AvantGrand action that I simply cannot do on the CLP-785?

Am I simply compensating for my shortcomings; buying the best money can buy for the sake of it, or am I simply being influenced by other people’s perceptions/opinions?

So many questions yet not enough time.

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Originally Posted by proxy001
. . .
10 years later, being in a different life situation I wanted to upgrade. I looked at digitals and was unimpressed, regardless of price. (that was about 5 years ago)

So I decided to buy a used grand acoustic.

I have been playing on a Grand Young Chang by Pramberger for the last 5 years.

I know it is not regarded as a one of the best, and the price shows, but...I like it. I like the accuracy of the action, better than many expensive acoustic for me. I do not like the muddiness of the lowest keys. In the mid range its good.
The best I can describe it is that acoustic, have a rich sound, a little something because they are never perfectly tuned that give them life and colors.
. . .
Second problem, I realize that recording an acoustic piano is a pro job. I never managed a half decent recording.

So... I am contemplating getting a digital to play at times and record stuff, nothing professional, just get a clean recording to send. ( I am currently using my iPhone to record....)

Yesterday I went to a few stores. . .

When I listen to YouTube video recordings of some digital pianos they do sound great, on my computer...

I played on a high end clavinova that is about 10 years old and I do not like it either. Action is ok but sound is so artificial.

I played on several expensive digital Yamaha at a piano store and I didn't like them...
The action is toy like, the sound is bad, muffled and flat. Also I do not like the key sound when you press them.[b]
[b]One exception was I think the avant grand? I thought one of them acted and sounded like a real one.


In a store I played on a Roland 2000 I believe. I kinda liked the action and to me the sound is interesting.

IMHO, Yamaha tries to sound like the really thing but doesn't. At least Roland has that little metallic/synthetic hue to its sound that make it interesting.

Please dont yell at me, all of those observations are personal, and sound is very subjective.

Here Is my question:

for my purpose, under 2k, people are talking a lot about Yamaha 515, Kawai 110/520/920 and Roland FP series.

Am I losing my time, looking for something that doesn't exist? Am I going to be disappointed with any of the digitals?
Should I just buy a cheaper one for recordings and practice (Practicing jazz stuff with 6th/8th/9th/13th on an acoustic that is a bit off make me second guess myself) ?
BTW, I'd love a digital that can record straight to MP3 on USB if such a thing exists.

. . .
Thank you in advance for your guidance.


. Charles
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
The AG is very nice for what it is and looks great in our living room. But coming up on 4 months ownership, if I had it to do over again, I would have just got the P-515 for a fraction of the price. It would have functioned for the same purpose I'm using the N3X for. No matter how much dough you throw at this, it's still not going to be a piano.

I feel the P-515 is a decent compromise. It's been sometime since I played it but when I did, I felt it was Yamaha's best offering for straight piano I've ever played.

I wholeheartedly agree about the P-515 being one of Yamaha’s best offerings in a while; especially when you consider all you’re getting for so little (1.5K).

This brings me to the other point touched by Mr. Ferris:

Is a hybrid worth all the fuzz?

Honestly, some days I think it is -worthy- and sometimes I think it’s not.

Like many here, I’m always thinking about what my next piano upgrade will be, and of course, the first thing that comes to mind is a hybrid; “duh, it has a grand piano action”, but then I think about something like the CLP-785 -for about half the price- and contrast that with how much my P-515 already gives me, and I’m back to square one.

Is this pull towards a ‘real’ action based on facts or on unresolved emotions?

Do I want a ‘real’ action because it’s quantifiably better or simply because it makes me feel better?

What can I do on the AvantGrand action that I simply cannot do on the CLP-785?

Am I simply compensating for my shortcomings; buying the best money can buy for the sake of it, or am I simply being influenced by other people’s perceptions/opinions?

So many questions yet not enough time.

All good questions.
The action does not make us feel better, it makes us play better, learn better, and teach us accuracy.

For the rest, as humans I think we tend to think that more expensive is better. IF any of those keyboards was priced at $300, would we buy them? It's even worse I feel with an instrument with which we develop a form of a relationship.
On the hybrid, I am conflicted, so close to the real deal yet so far, and in the price range of an acoustic.

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Originally Posted by _sem_
Originally Posted by proxy001
I am probably going to go the 515 route, from what I read, the touch, the action is close to an acoustic

Don't believe what you read, try and judge yourself. All of these are close to some acoustic but perhaps not the one you're used to. The P515 is "crusty", heavy at the top but then gives in (too?) softly. Kawais and Rolands are the other way around, soft at start, then give more resistance lower down.

You are correct. But since I cannot try them I have no other choice but to listen read and ask.

What is your opinion on the 515? Do you prefer the Kawai?

Thank you

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I recently bought the P515 after trying out ES920, FP90X and P515 at the same store which happens to have all three. I went there prepared to buy the FP90X but ended up with the Yamaha. What primarily drove my decision was the touch. The P515 has a firmer and heavier feel while FP90X seems to have a soft key bed. ES920 is somewhere in the middle. As my primary (and only) purpose is to treat it as a piano substitute and nothing more, the P515 fits with my goal. Also the build quality of P515 is excellent.


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Oops -- let's try that again . . .

Originally Posted by proxy001
. . .
10 years later, being in a different life situation I wanted to upgrade. I looked at digitals and was unimpressed, regardless of price. (that was about 5 years ago)

So I decided to buy a used grand acoustic.

I have been playing on a Grand Young Chang by Pramberger for the last 5 years.

I know it is not regarded as a one of the best, and the price shows, but...I like it. I like the accuracy of the action, better than many expensive acoustic for me. I do not like the muddiness of the lowest keys. In the mid range its good.
The best I can describe it is that acoustic, have a rich sound, a little something because they are never perfectly tuned that give them life and colors.
. . .
Second problem, I realize that recording an acoustic piano is a pro job. I never managed a half decent recording.

So... I am contemplating getting a digital to play at times and record stuff, nothing professional, just get a clean recording to send. ( I am currently using my iPhone to record....)

Yesterday I went to a few stores. . .

When I listen to YouTube video recordings of some digital pianos they do sound great, on my computer...

I played on a high end clavinova that is about 10 years old and I do not like it either. Action is ok but sound is so artificial.

I played on several expensive digital Yamaha at a piano store and I didn't like them...
The action is toy like, the sound is bad, muffled and flat. Also I do not like the key sound when you press them.[b]
[b]One exception was I think the avant grand? I thought one of them acted and sounded like a real one.


In a store I played on a Roland 2000 I believe. I kinda liked the action and to me the sound is interesting.

IMHO, Yamaha tries to sound like the really thing but doesn't. At least Roland has that little metallic/synthetic hue to its sound that make it interesting.

Please dont yell at me, all of those observations are personal, and sound is very subjective.

Here Is my question:

for my purpose, under 2k, people are talking a lot about Yamaha 515, Kawai 110/520/920 and Roland FP series.

Am I losing my time, looking for something that doesn't exist? Am I going to be disappointed with any of the digitals?
Should I just buy a cheaper one for recordings and practice (Practicing jazz stuff with 6th/8th/9th/13th on an acoustic that is a bit off make me second guess myself) ?
BTW, I'd love a digital that can record straight to MP3 on USB if such a thing exists.

. . .
Thank you in advance for your guidance.

FWIW (and PMFJI) --

There are a few intertwined issues here:

(a) The only DP the OP _liked_ was a Yamaha Avant Grand. But it's way out of budget (I think). If it's affordable, the obvious solution to the issue is:

. . . Buy an Avant Grand.

(b) The other acceptable DP was an RD2000. So we can probably forget about recommending "mid-range" DP's like the P-515.

. . . but a Roland FP-90x (shares action with RD2000, and its sound
. . . generator is a close cousin) might be worth looking at.

(c) I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that the OP hasn't _seriously experimented_ with recording his Young Chang. "It's a pro job" is often shorthand for:

. . . "It looks complicated, and I'll have to learn a lot of stuff --
. . . is there a shortcut I can take ?"

(d) The OP seems to be concerned with the problems of creating an MP3 recording. Two comments:

. . . (1) for technical reasons, that's generally a bad idea. The preferred
. . . . . technique is to record a WAV file, edit it, and then compress to
.. . . . MP3 -- that gets the best available quality.

. . . (2) Converting from WAV to MP3 just needs a few mouse-clicks,
. . . . . with any recording software (e.g. Audacity).

Given all that, I see several paths standing out:

1. Forget Iphones and iPads and anything else starting with "i".

Do some reading on piano recording techniques (the Shure website, and Sound on Sound archives, would be a good place to start). Hugh Sung has several videos that skirt the material, and there's a lot of "How to Record a Grand Piano" videos on YouTube. There are quite a few old threads on recording pianos on this website.

Then, bite the recording bullet -- buy some decent recording hardware (mics, stands, a multi-track audio interface or multi-track digital recorder), pick out some recording software (multi-track recording is possible in Audacity, on a fast PC, a DAW might be better) --

. . . and learn to record the Young Chang so it sounds, on the recording,
. . . as good as it sounds live.

I could buy several cardioid (or multi-pattern) condenser mics, and a 4-track audio interface / recorder, for the price of an RD2000. The recording skills would take time to develop, but that could be a "cost" or a "benefit", depending on the OP's frame of mind.


2. Get an RD2000, or the cheaper (but not cheap) FP-90x (with the same action, and similar tone quality), and use its built-in "record WAV to USB thumb drive" to get WAV files, when he plays. Then convert them to MP3 on a PC. Do this with the understanding that neither the touch (while playing), or the tone (while listening), will be quite like the Young Chang.

3. Get a quote for installing a "PianoScan" system _on the Young Chang_. That's a MIDI interface that sits underneath the keys, doesn't change the "touch" of the piano, and sends MIDI data to another device. (I haven't tried it -- you might want opinions from people who have.)

The "other device" can be a PC, with piano-simulation software (a "VST") installed on it:

. . . the sound on the recording won't be Young Chang sound,
. . . but the touch, while recording, will be the real Young Chang touch.

If the VST's sound isn't to the OP's liking, VST's are reasonably cheap (if you don't buy too many). There are wide variations in what's on the market -- lots of threads, here.

That will require some technical skill in configuring the PC and VST, (and PianoScan), to work smoothly together. But enough people here have been through that mill so we know it's possible.

There's one more question that's been on my mind:

Quote
. . . When I listen to YouTube video recordings of some digital pianos they do sound great, on my computer...

. . . How are you playing them?

. . . Through the computer's loudspeakers?
. . . Through headphones ?
. . . Through outboard loudspeakers ?

Thanks -- and I'm sorry to make this so long . . .


. Charles
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Oops -- let's try that again . . .

Originally Posted by proxy001
. . .
10 years later, being in a different life situation I wanted to upgrade. I looked at digitals and was unimpressed, regardless of price. (that was about 5 years ago)

So I decided to buy a used grand acoustic.

I have been playing on a Grand Young Chang by Pramberger for the last 5 years.

I know it is not regarded as a one of the best, and the price shows, but...I like it. I like the accuracy of the action, better than many expensive acoustic for me. I do not like the muddiness of the lowest keys. In the mid range its good.
The best I can describe it is that acoustic, have a rich sound, a little something because they are never perfectly tuned that give them life and colors.
. . .
Second problem, I realize that recording an acoustic piano is a pro job. I never managed a half decent recording.

So... I am contemplating getting a digital to play at times and record stuff, nothing professional, just get a clean recording to send. ( I am currently using my iPhone to record....)

Yesterday I went to a few stores. . .

When I listen to YouTube video recordings of some digital pianos they do sound great, on my computer...

I played on a high end clavinova that is about 10 years old and I do not like it either. Action is ok but sound is so artificial.

I played on several expensive digital Yamaha at a piano store and I didn't like them...
The action is toy like, the sound is bad, muffled and flat. Also I do not like the key sound when you press them.[b]
[b]One exception was I think the avant grand? I thought one of them acted and sounded like a real one.


In a store I played on a Roland 2000 I believe. I kinda liked the action and to me the sound is interesting.

IMHO, Yamaha tries to sound like the really thing but doesn't. At least Roland has that little metallic/synthetic hue to its sound that make it interesting.

Please dont yell at me, all of those observations are personal, and sound is very subjective.

Here Is my question:

for my purpose, under 2k, people are talking a lot about Yamaha 515, Kawai 110/520/920 and Roland FP series.

Am I losing my time, looking for something that doesn't exist? Am I going to be disappointed with any of the digitals?
Should I just buy a cheaper one for recordings and practice (Practicing jazz stuff with 6th/8th/9th/13th on an acoustic that is a bit off make me second guess myself) ?
BTW, I'd love a digital that can record straight to MP3 on USB if such a thing exists.

. . .
Thank you in advance for your guidance.

FWIW (and PMFJI) --

There are a few intertwined issues here:

(a) The only DP the OP _liked_ was a Yamaha Avant Grand. But it's way out of budget (I think). If it's affordable, the obvious solution to the issue is:

. . . Buy an Avant Grand.

(b) The other acceptable DP was an RD2000. So we can probably forget about recommending "mid-range" DP's like the P-515.

. . . but a Roland FP-90x (shares action with RD2000, and its sound
. . . generator is a close cousin) might be worth looking at.

(c) I'll bet dollars-to-donuts that the OP hasn't _seriously experimented_ with recording his Young Chang. "It's a pro job" is often shorthand for:

. . . "It looks complicated, and I'll have to learn a lot of stuff --
. . . is there a shortcut I can take ?"

(d) The OP seems to be concerned with the problems of creating an MP3 recording. Two comments:

. . . (1) for technical reasons, that's generally a bad idea. The preferred
. . . . . technique is to record a WAV file, edit it, and then compress to
.. . . . MP3 -- that gets the best available quality.

. . . (2) Converting from WAV to MP3 just needs a few mouse-clicks,
. . . . . with any recording software (e.g. Audacity).

Given all that, I see several paths standing out:

1. Forget Iphones and iPads and anything else starting with "i".

Do some reading on piano recording techniques (the Shure website, and Sound on Sound archives, would be a good place to start). Hugh Sung has several videos that skirt the material, and there's a lot of "How to Record a Grand Piano" videos on YouTube. There are quite a few old threads on recording pianos on this website.

Then, bite the recording bullet -- buy some decent recording hardware (mics, stands, a multi-track audio interface or multi-track digital recorder), pick out some recording software (multi-track recording is possible in Audacity, on a fast PC, a DAW might be better) --

. . . and learn to record the Young Chang so it sounds, on the recording,
. . . as good as it sounds live.

I could buy several cardioid (or multi-pattern) condenser mics, and a 4-track audio interface / recorder, for the price of an RD2000. The recording skills would take time to develop, but that could be a "cost" or a "benefit", depending on the OP's frame of mind.


2. Get an RD2000, or the cheaper (but not cheap) FP-90x (with the same action, and similar tone quality), and use its built-in "record WAV to USB thumb drive" to get WAV files, when he plays. Then convert them to MP3 on a PC. Do this with the understanding that neither the touch (while playing), or the tone (while listening), will be quite like the Young Chang.

3. Get a quote for installing a "PianoScan" system _on the Young Chang_. That's a MIDI interface that sits underneath the keys, doesn't change the "touch" of the piano, and sends MIDI data to another device. (I haven't tried it -- you might want opinions from people who have.)

The "other device" can be a PC, with piano-simulation software (a "VST") installed on it:

. . . the sound on the recording won't be Young Chang sound,
. . . but the touch, while recording, will be the real Young Chang touch.

If the VST's sound isn't to the OP's liking, VST's are reasonably cheap (if you don't buy too many). There are wide variations in what's on the market -- lots of threads, here.

That will require some technical skill in configuring the PC and VST, (and PianoScan), to work smoothly together. But enough people here have been through that mill so we know it's possible.

There's one more question that's been on my mind:

Quote
. . . When I listen to YouTube video recordings of some digital pianos they do sound great, on my computer...

. . . How are you playing them?

. . . Through the computer's loudspeakers?
. . . Through headphones ?
. . . Through outboard loudspeakers ?

Thanks -- and I'm sorry to make this so long . . .


Charles, you nailed it. Thank you for your very analytical and logical post.

Couple remarks:
I thought the action of the RD2000 was ok, the sound not so much.
Your dollar to donut bet is 100% accurate. When I looked into the complexities of recording an acoustic, I gave up. (I did try with a dedicated microphone). I read a bit on it and realized you need to be a sound engineer to do it correctly and even then, it still doesn't sound like in person...

As for the recording format, you are correct, when I said piano to mp3, I meant piano to digital file, whichever provides good quality .

I am sure you are correct and there are ways I could achieve good results with additional equipment on my grand, but... I would be more focused on the recording part than playing. For that, I think an acoustic is great. Also I admit it's nice to be able to change the type of piano at the touch of a button.

Are digital piano on a log curve where when you double the money, you increase quality by 10%? Am I correct to think they are still miles away from acoustic, both for the player and for the listener? Or Am I just being OCD about it.

To answer your question I listened to review on my computer first through computer speakers (...) and then with Sony XM3, which changed my mind about Yamaha and Kawai.

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I just wanna say . . . Charles, your generosity in creating that detailed and on-point post is an example of what these forums are at their best. A job REALLY well done!

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Quote
. . .
Are digital piano on a log curve where when you double the money, you increase quality by 10%? Am I correct to think they are still miles away from acoustic, both for the player and for the listener? Or Am I just being OCD about it.

It feels that way, sometimes. My local music store had a Young Chang baby grand, when I was looking at what DP to buy. I played a few notes, and was instantly wow'ed by the difference between it, and any of the DP's on the floor:

. . . it felt, and sounded, _alive_, in a way none of the DP's could match.

Which is why I suggested that you should spend serious money, and time, learning to record it.

The DP's have gotten better -- "string resonance" is a standard feature in mid-price-and-up models, and pedal response has moved from "on/off" to "continuous". But improving the feel of the action -- that's where you must spend serious money. I've never played a hybrid digital (Kawai NV or Yamaha Avant Grand), but I believe the people who say they're in a class above standard DP's. Not necessarily in sound, but in feel.

There are lots of people, here, who feel that VST's give better sound than most of the sound generators built into DP's. Not many say:

. . . "This VST sounds just as good as an acoustic piano!"

Quote
To answer your question I listened to review on my computer first through computer speakers (...) and then with Sony XM3, which changed my mind about Yamaha and Kawai.

The playback system matters. Again, you'll find a log curve with cost vs quality, and people have personal preferences. But the XM3's (from what I read) are in the "good enough" category. Most "computer speakers" are not.

Have fun -- I'm sure you'll find something that works for you.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
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