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#3123586 06/01/21 03:59 PM
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peterws Offline OP
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Such fun. I'd gone off them when digitals came into play, with their purity of sound and easy action, they seemed like the way forward. Maybe they still are, but even a basic acoustic has that indefinable quality that would be totally, or almost impossible to reproduce electronically.except by the crudest of means, like direct sampling involving no processing or modelling. I guess you'd have to process layers of samples into each other somehow to get a dynamic response worth having.
I'd tried out Yamaha's cheapest, the B1 silent. Situated in a corner similar to how it would be sited in my little room, it sounded great, not lacking in bass and with a clear tone which hits you as a wall of sound from the whole instrument. the top notes sounded lovely as did the rest.
The bass notes on this and other acoustics I tried tended to lose definition as one progressed further down the scale; maybe unlike that of a quality grand which digitals emulate.
It'd be darned nice to have one. It looked and sounded a quality instrument, even if it felt heavier to play than most digitals.

Talk me out of it, guys! It is loud and if I quietened it, the magic would disappear . . . smile (wan smile)


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I'm DEFINITELY not talking you out of it - GO, GO, GO!

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Don't do it, you might enjoy it so much you could forget to have dinner on time, or something. And you don't want that!

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Hello,

@peterws, Funny you should write this--today!

After shops recently re-opened here in the Netherlands, and with the sun out big time this afternoon, I decided to bike to a local charity shop for the first time in like 7 or 8 months.

As I hoped, there was an acoustic upright piano there, so I moved a bench over, opened top lid and fallboard and started to play. It was an 85 to 110 year old torn wreck, a 51 or 52" German and/or Dutch made Hilger. With worn band-aid like stickers all over the keys indicating the notes and "sol la si..." etcetera markings.

Not perfectly in tune of course, but it sang! The bass thundered! The sound was warm yet clear! The resonances were rich and natural! The action so light and intuitive it almost played itself! A wall of sound indeed--and lively tactile vibrations throughout the whole instrument.

People stopped to listen. Shop personnel asked if I would play just a little longer. And thanked me when it was time to move on. The price of the instrument was half of that of a Ravenscroft, Garritan or Ivory license. Less than a quarter of a VSL full. The only, sad full stop for me is that it is physically impossible for me to house an acoustic piano in this phase of my life.

It was an amazing, eye(re)opening experience. When I came home, just to compare, I started up the PC, PHA-4 action, and Modern U. No comparison to that 100 year old filthy wreck. If I didn't need them this much as a surrogate piano, I could have picked up the whole digital shebang and smacked it out the window. Unusable plastic junk, is how I felt early this evening.

So...

Originally Posted by pwl
I'm DEFINITELY not talking you out of it - GO, GO, GO!

There you have it.

I'd just consider a higher upright than the B1. And that action shouldn't be heavy, or so I learned this afternoon. The wreck played light as a feather with beautiful dynamics, where my digital PHA-4 now is pulling on a dead horse in comparison.

Cheers and happy acoustic playing,

HZ

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Shop personnel asked if I would play just a little longer.

That is really nice! What a nice story.

2 questions just popped in my head.

1: what did you play?
2: do you know pianofest? If not check out www.pianofest.nl, sounds like you might just enjoy such an event. I actually played there last year and will play again this year, it's on the 23st of this month!

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...And NEVER quieten it NOR put it in silent mode...

πŸ˜‹

HZ

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Hello,

@U3piano, This morning we 'talked' about living fully in the context of VI or other purchases. Well, it is such moments as these, sitting at that 'wreck', when I feel really fully alive and in the moment.

Originally Posted by U3piano
2 questions just popped in my head.

1. I'm very much a beginning beginner. So I love to just listen to the harmonics and resonances of such an instrument, fool around with keyboard and pedal, made up some little improvisations. Stumbled upon a slow jazz song on a CD I had for a long time and decided it should be doable for me to figure it out by ear and learn myself to play it as a 'beginner' piece. The song features a piano and sax, I sort of merged those into a piano solo arrangement. And it worked out. So that's the kind of fooling around that I do on an occasion like this afternoon.
2. Never heard of that festival! Should be fun! I just peeked at the site and it says they're not sure about visitors yet. And being a lung patient, I am extra super careful with Covid. Hope to have my vaccinations in place by mid-July. But let me think of it.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

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Originally Posted by peterws
Such fun. I'd gone off them when digitals came into play, with their purity of sound and easy action, they seemed like the way forward. Maybe they still are, but even a basic acoustic has that indefinable quality that would be totally, or almost impossible to reproduce electronically.except by the crudest of means, like direct sampling involving no processing or modelling. I guess you'd have to process layers of samples into each other somehow to get a dynamic response worth having.
I'd tried out Yamaha's cheapest, the B1 silent. Situated in a corner similar to how it would be sited in my little room, it sounded great, not lacking in bass and with a clear tone which hits you as a wall of sound from the whole instrument. the top notes sounded lovely as did the rest.
The bass notes on this and other acoustics I tried tended to lose definition as one progressed further down the scale; maybe unlike that of a quality grand which digitals emulate.
It'd be darned nice to have one. It looked and sounded a quality instrument, even if it felt heavier to play than most digitals.

Talk me out of it, guys! It is loud and if I quietened it, the magic would disappear . . . smile (wan smile)

Not going to talk you out of it, but to remind you to try different models, not just buy the first unique experience that digital can't provide πŸ˜‰


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peterws Offline OP
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I could get the B1 without silent facility for just over Β£3k . . . or a pre-loved one privately for Β£300.
Damned tempting! I needs to sweettalk the missus all over again . . .am I up to this? Oh heck what am I sayin' . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Hello,

At Β£300, the sweet missus can give it to you as a present!

🍾 🍰 πŸ˜‹

Cheers and happy persuasions,

HZ

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- Two different instruments, built for the same kind of music composed centuries ago.
- No comparison - one is clearly better than the other.
- The other will always be a compromise but I say we shouldn't even start to compare.
- If you have the money, time (adjustment, maintenance & love) - why not?
- NO MORE struggling with onboard sounds, tweaking, EQ, monitors, speakers, speakers and monitors, VSTs, VSL, pivot length, pedal authenticity (remember?), polyphony, wooden keys, wooden-ish keys, downweight, side wiggle - NO MORE!

There's nothing to talk you out of Peter. Bring it home.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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"What a real nice way, to spend some time, in Mason, Ohio, on a lazy Sunday afternoon... in nineteen-hundred... and three..."

Cheers,

HZ

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
"What a real nice way, to spend some time, in Mason, Ohio, on a lazy Sunday afternoon... in nineteen-hundred... and three..."

Cheers,

HZ

laugh

HZ, you know I am a DP guy. I know and believe the DP and Acoustics are two different instruments. I fell in love with DPs and will stay that way forever. Since most folks like Peter always like to compare with acoustic, the ultimate solution for them folks is to buy an acoustics when their circumstances permit. Despite the technological advances in piano engines, recording and playback equipment, they will never be satisfied with a DP - ever!

Since I have believed the two are different and that I chose one over the other, the path for me is to upgrade to better and better DPs, but never an acoustic! Even though I can afford one and can make space.


A man must love a thing very much if he practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practice it without any hope of doing it well. Such a man must love the toils of the work more than any other man can love the rewards of it.
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Originally Posted by peterws
I could get the B1 without silent facility for just over Β£3k . . . or a pre-loved one privately for Β£300.
Damned tempting! I needs to sweettalk the missus all over again . . .am I up to this? Oh heck what am I sayin' . . .
Go for it, either one will be a blast!! 😍😍😍


Lisa
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Cunningham Studio Grand & Yamaha CLP645

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Don't forget, the ongoing tuning, occasional maintenance, possible need for some humidity or temperature stability, and your love of pianoteq! Everyone has different taste but I would prefer a smaller K series from Kawai over the B1, from which you might soon get over the black shiny sloping legless appearance.

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Originally Posted by peterws
Such fun. I'd gone off them when digitals came into play, with their purity of sound and easy action, they seemed like the way forward. Maybe they still are, but even a basic acoustic has that indefinable quality that would be totally, or almost impossible to reproduce electronically.except by the crudest of means, like direct sampling involving no processing or modelling. I guess you'd have to process layers of samples into each other somehow to get a dynamic response worth having.
I'd tried out Yamaha's cheapest, the B1 silent. Situated in a corner similar to how it would be sited in my little room, it sounded great, not lacking in bass and with a clear tone which hits you as a wall of sound from the whole instrument. the top notes sounded lovely as did the rest.
The bass notes on this and other acoustics I tried tended to lose definition as one progressed further down the scale; maybe unlike that of a quality grand which digitals emulate.
It'd be darned nice to have one. It looked and sounded a quality instrument, even if it felt heavier to play than most digitals.

Talk me out of it, guys! It is loud and if I quietened it, the magic would disappear . . . smile (wan smile)

It seems, another one found the light. Once you go acoustic, you never look back.



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peterws Offline OP
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"It seems, another one found the light. Once you go acoustic, you never look back."

From JoeT, he of the P515.
Well, Joe; notwithstanding this not so new (but forgotten) revelation, I'm now toying with the ideas associated with a Wall of Sound. That too is nothing new; Phil Spectre invented the phrase. But I plan to use transducers and wood.
Too much piano practice isn't good for you, you know . . . .


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JoeT #3123755 06/02/21 04:20 AM
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Hello,

Originally Posted by mmathew
Despite the technological advances in piano engines, recording and playback equipment, they will never be satisfied with a DP - ever!

... That would be me ...

Originally Posted by JoeT
Once you go acoustic, you never look back.

... That would be me ...

Cheers and happy personal preferences/passions,

HZ

PS Dayton Ohio, 1903 by Randy Newman; another sweet little piece I'm trying to figure out by ear and make a bit of a personal piano arrangement out of 😌

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Originally Posted by peterws
"It seems, another one found the light. Once you go acoustic, you never look back."

From JoeT, he of the P515.

That's why I'm primarily playing the acoustic guitar now. At least the P-515 is not a plugin.

I also own an electric guitar, but I wasn't playing that very much. Then I removed all the digital processing / modeling from the chain and plugged into a fully analog transistor amp. And suddenly stuff started sounding right - and loud.


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Hello,

Originally Posted by peterws
Notwithstanding this not so new (but forgotten) revelation, I'm now toying with the ideas associated with a Wall of Sound. That too is nothing new; Phil Spectre invented the phrase. But I plan to use transducers and wood.
Too much piano practice isn't good for you, you know . . . .

So now, will you stop beating about the bush (as I am doing all the time--oops) and get yourself that acoustic instead of such a cumbersome, unsatisfactory (but fun...) project?!

Cheers and happy decision making,

HZ

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