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Originally Posted by dogperson
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Originally Posted by ranjit
I would recommend checking out Josh Wright and Graham Fitch on Youtube if you are serious about learning. Denis Zhdanov also has a good channel.

I would recommend you bookmark these three but they may feel overwhelming if you are just starting

I would definitely start with PianoTV and Piano Career Academy. They both have lessons that are well done but appropriate for someone just starting.

Am I the only one that is not a fan of Josh Wright videos? I know he's a great pianist and teacher but I can't watch all his rambling but what do I know and maybe one day I will enjoy his courses too. laugh

I love PianoTV hands my favorite to watch so enjoyable and easy to understand.


Originally Posted by Sandeep
Primarily Jazz and Blues eventually. But I dont mind learning some western classical. I suppose the jazz learning path has to go through a western classical learning path, because all the learning tracks are primarily structured around western classical. Even stuff like arpgeggios, etc.
Right now stuff like playing by ear, etc are not very important. Reading music is also not primary - because i dont think im going to be taking a piece of music and running through it in real time. Its good as a supplementary tool. Neither is improvising. I think all those are things that I may get into after year 2 maybe
thanks!

Nope, you do not have to study any classical. I thought this was the case too I wanted to learn pop and was with a classical teacher and I dreaded the lessons and most material. I switched to a pop teacher and we study completely different areas and I love it. No matter what you study there is so much to be learned from the classics as I still play very easy classical pieces but I do not study classical.

You always get an intro jazz book such as
this one some of the concepts might be little tricky as sometimes these are intended for someone with some piano background. I would suggest looking at some intro contemporary piano books too as you'll enjoy them a lot if you want to get into jazz and blues.

It's still good to practice reading music even if you don't plan to sight read on the fly.

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Self-learning is hard. I've been both self taught and have taken lessons. Learning by yourself, there are just so many things you don't know about that a teacher can immediately spot. I'd recommend looking into getting Skype or Zoom lessons, which can be done remotely, if that is possible for you.

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You cannot do online lessons?

I'm located in the US and take online lessons from Canada.

You could find someone in China near by to do online lessons.

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Originally Posted by Ampersand
You cannot do online lessons?

I'm located in the US and take online lessons from Canada.

You could find someone in China near by to do online lessons.
You can find someone anywhere around the world. I'd recommend Canada or some European country like Spain or Ukraine. You'll get excellent education for a relatively inexpensive price.

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I recommended China because of time difference from where he/she is located and they have tons piano instructors in China.

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Originally Posted by lautreamont
Self-learning is hard. I've been both self taught and have taken lessons. Learning by yourself, there are just so many things you don't know about that a teacher can immediately spot. I'd recommend looking into getting Skype or Zoom lessons, which can be done remotely, if that is possible for you.
Yes it's hard but not impossible. It's like learning your native dialect, no one taught you grammar but you were fluent enough to be conversational! This was accomplished through sheer mimicry as a child, and being surrounded by adults. Same thing with learning piano, observation is the key! Surround yourself with accomplished pianists, simple conversations may yield you results. Eventually you will outgrow this method and will need to go school, like having mandatory English subjects from grade school all the way to college. Which means, as lautreamont mentioned, at this point you will need a teacher. Please note, that having a teacher doesn't guarantee you will not acquire improper techniques, albeit reduces the likelihood of developing one.


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Originally Posted by Ampersand
I recommended China because of time difference from where he/she is located and they have tons piano instructors in China.
The time difference between India and Europe is only a few hours and still manageable but online lessons don't necessarily require time synchronization. Some teachers review a video that you send them and give you feedback. Of course, immediate feedback is better.

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It sounds like @sandeeep is looking to get started out without lessons which is perfectly fine. Nothing wrong with learning on your own. Yes, of course it would be great if everyone could take lessons from day one but not everyone has that option. The two most common things many members say on the forums "get a teacher" and "ask your teacher"

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Originally Posted by SunnyKeys
Originally Posted by Sandeep
Originally Posted by SunnyKeys
I started by using Simply Piano. After a few months I bought an online lesson package from Piano Lessons on the Web. These held me for about 18 months. My access never ends so I can refer back, pick up the more advanced classes, etc. The site also has music theory classes. I've worked through a few but have neglected that part of my piano education recently.

Like previous posts, I felt I needed to get a unit done ASAP and worried by progress was too slow. But, I learned so much from these lessons it was money well spent.

I'm concerned with technique and I may end up with in person lessons.

Right now I'm working through the books listed in my signature. There are lots of great online tutorials for these books.

Good luck. Welcome. Hope India recovers soon.

hey thanks !
you're the first person I know that has a SimplyPiano past! How would you rate "Piano Lessons on the Web"? If you stuck with it for 18 months AFTER SIMPLYPIANO, did you find it easy to comprehend ?

Did you start with your books after "Piano Lessons on the Web", or would you recommend doing them before (let's say just after i complete SimplyPiano) ? Now that you have the advantage of retrospective...what would you advise ?

P.S. when you say books, do you mean this " RCM Level 1 etudes, ABRSM Level 1 2019-20 Exam pieces." ?
Can you link to the tutorials you're using ?
thanks!

Yes, i was able to easily understand the information on PLOTW. There was more depth than i found on Simply Piano. I grew frustrated with Simply Piano. I had some technical glitches where the app didn't pick up my play. I will say their tech support was good. My main problem was not being able to play fast enough to keep up and I found no way to back off the speed. Once I transitioned to piano lessons on the web I found out how much more depth of knowledge there was in piano playing and music theory. I can play scales, cadences and arpeggios in 12 keys, learned from PLOTW. Right now Tim is offering a free Home School series using one of the adult beginners books. I think the Alfred's adult book. So you could get page by page instruction. He's on YouTube, or probably available from his website. You can email him questions and he will answer. His package of classes are less than $200. A lot of content. Some of the pieces he chose I didn't like so I found an easy piece in the same key he was using.

It got to the point his lessons were a bit beyond my capabilities and so I switched to the RCM and ABRSM books to work on technique.

Good luck!

Hey thanks, this was super useful. I'm going to go get PLOTW.
P.S. all these apps work better with a midi connection from your controller/piano to the ipad/android. They dont pick up sound that well. With a midi connection, it works flawlessly.


Also - guys on this thread. Yes, I realise how important a teacher is. I come from a place, where they are called "Gurus", remember wink
But life is kind of [censored] right now. I would rather have a self-learning, self-paced method right now...versus none at all.

Also the logistics of "find a teacher" is tougher than you think. On-demand means Fiverr/Upwork. And I have not always been successful there. I will eventually get to a teacher (which i will invest time in finding). But I would appreciate some pointers on the best way to get some distance (maybe half limping) before I do.

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You mentioned blues. I'm a huge fan of Christian Fuchs' YouTube channel:

http://bit.ly/2CwbD

He has a lot of good stuff for beginners, as well as more advanced stuff.

Good luck!


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Originally Posted by Sandeep
Originally Posted by SunnyKeys
Originally Posted by Sandeep
Originally Posted by SunnyKeys
I started by using Simply Piano. After a few months I bought an online lesson package from Piano Lessons on the Web. These held me for about 18 months. My access never ends so I can refer back, pick up the more advanced classes, etc. The site also has music theory classes. I've worked through a few but have neglected that part of my piano education recently.

Like previous posts, I felt I needed to get a unit done ASAP and worried by progress was too slow. But, I learned so much from these lessons it was money well spent.

I'm concerned with technique and I may end up with in person lessons.

Right now I'm working through the books listed in my signature. There are lots of great online tutorials for these books.

Good luck. Welcome. Hope India recovers soon.

hey thanks !
you're the first person I know that has a SimplyPiano past! How would you rate "Piano Lessons on the Web"? If you stuck with it for 18 months AFTER SIMPLYPIANO, did you find it easy to comprehend ?

Did you start with your books after "Piano Lessons on the Web", or would you recommend doing them before (let's say just after i complete SimplyPiano) ? Now that you have the advantage of retrospective...what would you advise ?

P.S. when you say books, do you mean this " RCM Level 1 etudes, ABRSM Level 1 2019-20 Exam pieces." ?
Can you link to the tutorials you're using ?
thanks!

Yes, i was able to easily understand the information on PLOTW. There was more depth than i found on Simply Piano. I grew frustrated with Simply Piano. I had some technical glitches where the app didn't pick up my play. I will say their tech support was good. My main problem was not being able to play fast enough to keep up and I found no way to back off the speed. Once I transitioned to piano lessons on the web I found out how much more depth of knowledge there was in piano playing and music theory. I can play scales, cadences and arpeggios in 12 keys, learned from PLOTW. Right now Tim is offering a free Home School series using one of the adult beginners books. I think the Alfred's adult book. So you could get page by page instruction. He's on YouTube, or probably available from his website. You can email him questions and he will answer. His package of classes are less than $200. A lot of content. Some of the pieces he chose I didn't like so I found an easy piece in the same key he was using.

It got to the point his lessons were a bit beyond my capabilities and so I switched to the RCM and ABRSM books to work on technique.

Good luck!

Hey thanks, this was super useful. I'm going to go get PLOTW.
P.S. all these apps work better with a midi connection from your controller/piano to the ipad/android. They dont pick up sound that well. With a midi connection, it works flawlessly.


Also - guys on this thread. Yes, I realise how important a teacher is. I come from a place, where they are called "Gurus", remember wink
But life is kind of [censored] right now. I would rather have a self-learning, self-paced method right now...versus none at all.

Also the logistics of "find a teacher" is tougher than you think. On-demand means Fiverr/Upwork. And I have not always been successful there. I will eventually get to a teacher (which i will invest time in finding). But I would appreciate some pointers on the best way to get some distance (maybe half limping) before I do.
We were just pointing out that is possible. You can ask people on forums like these if they're willing to teach, and I bet a few would be interested. You can message me if you're interested in talking about it.

I have learned mostly on my own, as I keep pointing out lol. I think I could land a gig at a restaurant or something with my skills tbh. Since you're interested in jazz and blues etc, here's my suggestion. First learn all of your basic scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. It might seem like a lot, but there are less than maybe 50 of them which are commonly used, which isn't that much if you think about it. Look up musictheory.net. Also, as mentioned earlier, watch tutorials by Josh Wright, Graham Fitch, etc. Also, teach yourself the basics of reading sheet music. Get to the point where you at least know the notes in all of the major and minor keys, major, minor and seventh chords, basic progressions such as 2-5-1. Go through all of the pages on music theory.net to get the basics. Also, learn to play a melody by ear. Try to understand basic technique to a decent extent and follow what e.g. Graham Fitch has to say.

Once you've got all of this, you should be able to play simple music by lead sheets or by memorizing sheet music.

I hope this hasn't scared you off. It's actually quite doable to play piano to an intermediate level if you carefully follow what I've said here. I was able to reach an intermediate-advanced sort of level, but there were certain things I had missed. Still, I was certainly able to make music and enjoy playing the piano. Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

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Originally Posted by Relaxing_Music
Jazz: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-obvt6Gn0Eef9vKxwcg_pg
Theory: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRwIF4NhKQf6tQpnYDcSC5A
Overall: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUyeh8X37t_xJ77M6gHb1PQ

I'm with pianomarvel and like it a lot. You can have a free month.
I don't use their own material. No opinion if it's good or not I don't know. They have a lot of other material.
I work With BachScolar material, Bartok microcosmos and request sheets If they don't have it. Use it mostly in prepare mode.
so I have a copy of Sight Reading and Harmony - I bought it after reading about it here on PW. But I'm not sure if i should start using it right away or after some more time on SimplyPiano.

What would be your advice on someone just starting out ? What material should they use ? assume 1 month since they first touched a piano.

P.S. I have android, so i cant use pianomarvel yet.

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Originally Posted by ranjit
We were just pointing out that is possible. You can ask people on forums like these if they're willing to teach, and I bet a few would be interested. You can message me if you're interested in talking about it.

I have learned mostly on my own, as I keep pointing out lol. I think I could land a gig at a restaurant or something with my skills tbh. Since you're interested in jazz and blues etc, here's my suggestion. First learn all of your basic scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. It might seem like a lot, but there are less than maybe 50 of them which are commonly used, which isn't that much if you think about it. Look up musictheory.net. Also, as mentioned earlier, watch tutorials by Josh Wright, Graham Fitch, etc. Also, teach yourself the basics of reading sheet music. Get to the point where you at least know the notes in all of the major and minor keys, major, minor and seventh chords, basic progressions such as 2-5-1. Go through all of the pages on music theory.net to get the basics. Also, learn to play a melody by ear. Try to understand basic technique to a decent extent and follow what e.g. Graham Fitch has to say.

Once you've got all of this, you should be able to play simple music by lead sheets or by memorizing sheet music.

I hope this hasn't scared you off. It's actually quite doable to play piano to an intermediate level if you carefully follow what I've said here. I was able to reach an intermediate-advanced sort of level, but there were certain things I had missed. Still, I was certainly able to make music and enjoy playing the piano. Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

Thanks for your reply ! And it is BRILLIANT to chat with someone who is self taught!

Can I bother you with a request - could you link to material that you think is best for your recommendations:

1. "learn all of your basic scales, chords, arpeggios, etc".
2. Look up musictheory.net - this is ios/ipad only. I was considering this https://www.udemy.com/course/music-theory-complete/ , https://www.udemy.com/course/music-theory-comprehensive-combined-part-4-5-6/ and https://www.udemy.com/course/music-theory-comprehensive-combined-part-7-8-9/ . You think this much is needed ? or is it too much ? I can avoid theory if its not necessary !
3. Get to the point where you at least know the notes in all of the major and minor keys, major, minor and seventh chords, basic progressions such as 2-5-1. Why is this needed ? if my intent is to play using sheet music in front of me, is all the theory needed so much ? I dont see myself getting into composition or improvisation for the next year atleast.
4. watch tutorials by Josh Wright, Graham Fitch, etc. follow what e.g. Graham Fitch has to say. - i was hoping you could point out a structured path to follow ? because i have struggled and found josh wright and graham fitch to be too complex when i watched some of their videos. I was almost ready to give up before i came across SimplyPiano to be honest. It simplified a path for a beginner to follow.

thanks!

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Originally Posted by Sandeep
Originally Posted by ranjit
We were just pointing out that is possible. You can ask people on forums like these if they're willing to teach, and I bet a few would be interested. You can message me if you're interested in talking about it.

I have learned mostly on my own, as I keep pointing out lol. I think I could land a gig at a restaurant or something with my skills tbh. Since you're interested in jazz and blues etc, here's my suggestion. First learn all of your basic scales, chords, arpeggios, etc. It might seem like a lot, but there are less than maybe 50 of them which are commonly used, which isn't that much if you think about it. Look up musictheory.net. Also, as mentioned earlier, watch tutorials by Josh Wright, Graham Fitch, etc. Also, teach yourself the basics of reading sheet music. Get to the point where you at least know the notes in all of the major and minor keys, major, minor and seventh chords, basic progressions such as 2-5-1. Go through all of the pages on music theory.net to get the basics. Also, learn to play a melody by ear. Try to understand basic technique to a decent extent and follow what e.g. Graham Fitch has to say.

Once you've got all of this, you should be able to play simple music by lead sheets or by memorizing sheet music.

I hope this hasn't scared you off. It's actually quite doable to play piano to an intermediate level if you carefully follow what I've said here. I was able to reach an intermediate-advanced sort of level, but there were certain things I had missed. Still, I was certainly able to make music and enjoy playing the piano. Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

Thanks for your reply ! And it is BRILLIANT to chat with someone who is self taught!

Can I bother you with a request - could you link to material that you think is best for your recommendations:

1. "learn all of your basic scales, chords, arpeggios, etc".
2. Look up musictheory.net - this is ios/ipad only. I was considering this https://www.udemy.com/course/music-theory-complete/ , https://www.udemy.com/course/music-theory-comprehensive-combined-part-4-5-6/ and https://www.udemy.com/course/music-theory-comprehensive-combined-part-7-8-9/ . You think this much is needed ? or is it too much ? I can avoid theory if its not necessary !
3. Get to the point where you at least know the notes in all of the major and minor keys, major, minor and seventh chords, basic progressions such as 2-5-1. Why is this needed ? if my intent is to play using sheet music in front of me, is all the theory needed so much ? I dont see myself getting into composition or improvisation for the next year atleast.
4. watch tutorials by Josh Wright, Graham Fitch, etc. follow what e.g. Graham Fitch has to say. - i was hoping you could point out a structured path to follow ? because i have struggled and found josh wright and graham fitch to be too complex when i watched some of their videos. I was almost ready to give up before i came across SimplyPiano to be honest. It simplified a path for a beginner to follow.

thanks!
Sandeep - I sent you a PM

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Despite the "OMG you must get a teacher!" vibe, I believe a lot of posters here are mostly or entirely self-taught. I think you can do perfectly well with a number of methods out there. I notice the Faber Piano Adventures books are available on Kindle, and they have some nice style supplements (the Jazz & Blues one might suit you) as well. There are a lot of excellent YouTube teachers, as others have pointed out. I think some of the ones mentioned might be a little intimidating for a beginner or elementary student, but I think PianoTV (hosted by the lovely Alyssia) is great and very welcoming:

PianoTV by Alyssia

FWIW, I'm mostly self-taught. I had just a handful of lessons when I was younger, and had noodled on and off, but adding that all up probably wasn't the equivalent of more than six months of lessons. Mostly we just worked out of the books, with a few pointers about bench height, arm position, finger curvature, etc. -- in other words, what you can get from books and YT videos. Years later I started up again and I've managed to reach a minimally competent intermediate level of playing, which is much more than I ever thought. I started with the Alfred Adult Method, and quickly switched over to following the RCM syllabus. I got solidly through level 4 - I think I could have passed an exam if I were interested in such things. Here's me playing a level 4 piece, for example - not perfect, but enough to pass, I think:



I cotinued into level 5 stuff, but stopped about halfway through, rather recently, when I decided I wanted to focus on blues (getting a bit into the blusier side of jazz as well). I'm mainly using a combination of Tim Richard's Improvising Blues Piano and a book of blues etudes (for lack of a better term) called Joy of Boogie and Blues, along with Christian Fuch's YT channel, which I mentioned above but will link again for convenience:

Christian Fuchs

I'm not quite ready to share any of that yet, but it's coming along.

Anyway, the point of this ramble is that I think the reflective adult beginner who is not planning a career as a professional classical concert pianist can do just fine by using the resources out there and not worrying too much about a teacher if that's not practical at the moment. Most importantly, I wouldn't let the lack of teacher dissuade you from diving in, making some progress, and having some fun! smile


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Originally Posted by TheophilusCarter
Despite the "OMG you must get a teacher!" vibe, I believe a lot of posters here are mostly or entirely self-taught. I think you can do perfectly well with a number of methods out there. I notice the Faber Piano Adventures books are available on Kindle, and they have some nice style supplements (the Jazz & Blues one might suit you) as well. There are a lot of excellent YouTube teachers, as others have pointed out. I think some of the ones mentioned might be a little intimidating for a beginner or elementary student, but I think PianoTV (hosted by the lovely Alyssia) is great and very welcoming:

PianoTV by Alyssia

FWIW, I'm mostly self-taught. I had just a handful of lessons when I was younger, and had noodled on and off, but adding that all up probably wasn't the equivalent of more than six months of lessons. Mostly we just worked out of the books, with a few pointers about bench height, arm position, finger curvature, etc. -- in other words, what you can get from books and YT videos. Years later I started up again and I've managed to reach a minimally competent intermediate level of playing, which is much more than I ever thought. I started with the Alfred Adult Method, and quickly switched over to following the RCM syllabus. I got solidly through level 4 - I think I could have passed an exam if I were interested in such things. Here's me playing a level 4 piece, for example - not perfect, but enough to pass, I think:



I cotinued into level 5 stuff, but stopped about halfway through, rather recently, when I decided I wanted to focus on blues (getting a bit into the blusier side of jazz as well). I'm mainly using a combination of Tim Richard's Improvising Blues Piano and a book of blues etudes (for lack of a better term) called Joy of Boogie and Blues, along with Christian Fuch's YT channel, which I mentioned above but will link again for convenience:

Christian Fuchs

I'm not quite ready to share any of that yet, but it's coming along.

Anyway, the point of this ramble is that I think the reflective adult beginner who is not planning a career as a professional classical concert pianist can do just fine by using the resources out there and not worrying too much about a teacher if that's not practical at the moment. Most importantly, I wouldn't let the lack of teacher dissuade you from diving in, making some progress, and having some fun! smile

thanks so much!
quick question - you said you switched from the courses to using RCM syllabus. Why is that ? (and more importantly, which material are you using ? this is the docs im seeing, but not able to figure out the path. https://files.rcmusic.com//sites/default/files/files/RCM-Piano-Syllabus-2015.pdf)

I read some of the threads like this - http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1811201/rcm-grade-1.html#Post1811201 - and got worried that the RCM syllabi might be too advanced without doing the method courses first.
Quote
"RCM 1 seems to be similar in difficulty to around 3B of a method like Piano Adventures or Alfred's Premier Piano Course."
Quote
I would like to point out for all others considering using RCM books for self-learning that RCM books were never intended for that purpose. RCM books do not present music in order of difficulty but in the order of styles then by author. Just because all the music in a RCM 5 book is considered RCM 5, the easier pieces are closer to RCM 4 and harder ones are almost RCM 6. This is quite a gap, and without a teacher guiding you, it would be very hard to pick the correct pieces. I hate to say but even teachers are often not so sensitive at choosing the appropriate pieces for adults who couldn't skip an entire grade level and survive because teachers are more accustomed to teaching youngsters with more elastic brains and the teachers themselves, of course, learned as youngsters as well.

would you suggest the RCM path for someone who's not interested in giving exams?

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Let’s see here. I started with the Alfred All-in-One Adult Method. I went through book 1 and into book 2, but I started to get frustrated with the rather unmusical selections … Then there was a period (which I didn’t mention above) where I worked from a collection of supposedly elementary pieces and just plain learned tunes for a while. However, I came to see that the difficulty levels were all over the place (on the RCM scale, from level 1 all the way through level 5!). At that point, I got the RCM syllabus and assessed myself, seeing that I had already pretty comfortably completed a lot of pieces that were through level 2, but just a smattering of pieces above that. So I decided to start with level 3 and work through there (I stopped about halfway through level 5, as mentioned above, to switch to blues).

I mainly looked at the syllabus and Alyssia’s PianoTV videos (she works off RCM) and went from there. I decided, based on conversations around here, to pretend I was taking exams and do everything required by the syllabus for each level’s exams, but not limit myself to it either (I probably did about three times as many pieces as required, and I spent at least a week on every etude in the book, then focusing on a few to learn more thoroughly). I spent a year on level 3 and a year on level 4, then a handful of months on level 5. (Individual progress will vary by, well, individual, of course – it’s not a race!) In the interest of full disclosure, I already played other instruments, and so already knew some theory and could read music, but I don’t think it’s a problem if you’re starting from scratch with those either: the RCM syllabus includes sight-reading & theory books in addition to the collections of pieces and etudes.

Anyway, to answer your actual question! I think methods are good to start with, but once you have the basics down, you might find the RCM course more musical. They also do a good job of promoting the total musician (theory, reading, etc.). Alyssia is a good YT teacher too! (If you feel you get a lot of value from her videos, please consider contributing to her Patreon - that goes for Christian Fuchs, too.) I should also say that RCM has two prep levels (Prep A and Prep B) that beginners would do before hitting level 1 – they are probably closer to those beginner method books. As far as difficulty within each level, it’s true that there can be some variety, but I think they’re all more or less in the ballpark, so you just have to use some common sense – and of course, ask for help around these parts – to pick selections that are appropriate for you.

I hope that helps! Always happy to chat about this, so feel free to ask more questions.


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland RD-2000, Yamaha MX61, Casio CDP-130
Past: Roland FP-30, Casio PX-160, Casio PX-830
Etc.: PianoTeq Stage 7 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4), Roland KC-80
Joined: May 2021
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Originally Posted by SunnyKeys
Originally Posted by ranjit
I would recommend checking out Josh Wright and Graham Fitch on Youtube if you are serious about learning. Denis Zhdanov also has a good channel.
I found Josh Wright recently. Enjoy his videos. Ill check out Denis Zhdanov. I really like Julian Lambert as well.
It's probably best to check some helpful courses online or on youtube and also, totally recommended Julian lambert. I use some tutorials videos which are in a course I suddenly found on this site: https://bit.ly/pianovibe9


since you look for a self-learning method I hope this helps you to establish a good foundation! :-)

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