2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
35 members (EB5AGV, D.P., dorfmouse, Anglagard44, Beansparrow, Burkey, AlphaTerminus, Creaky, 6 invisible), 861 guests, and 441 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
#3116614 05/12/21 08:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Which Steinway is considered a better made/designed Grand Piano:

I know that it is usually the larger piano the bigger sound.

But was wondering about a DESIGN COMPARISON of an A II vs a B?


Thoughts? I'm not asking which plays better or sounds better (that is an individual thing)

I'm thinking on terms of 'Design'!

OR ALSO: What is considered Steinway's best DESIGNED piano?

Last edited by brdwyguy; 05/12/21 08:11 AM.

Emerson Upright (1920's)
Westbrook Spinet (1970)
Schomacker Model A (1912)
Steinway Model A (1912)
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 644
M
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 644
Are you interested only in the cosmetic aspects, if sound is not a criterion?

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Lennie - I purchased a rebuilt A and am reading that the 'A' is the best designed Steinway

and wondering about the 'B' since it is 6' 11' , one would think the size makes it a better overall Grand


Emerson Upright (1920's)
Westbrook Spinet (1970)
Schomacker Model A (1912)
Steinway Model A (1912)
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 577
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 577
My understanding is that that A III was the best designed Steinway yet. However, all the designs evolve over time to some extent, but the basics were laid down by the end of the 1890s.

Paul.

Last edited by pyropaul; 05/12/21 10:23 AM.
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,224
W
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,224
Does the Piano Shop Bath review from April 2016 agree with what you have seen? Let us know what you think.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,126
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,126
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
Lennie - I purchased a rebuilt A and am reading that the 'A' is the best designed Steinway

and wondering about the 'B' since it is 6' 11' , one would think the size makes it a better overall Grand
Saying a piano has a better design doesn't mean it's superior to a larger piano from the same maker. If that was true everyone would buy a model A instead of a B. I think it means for its size it has a better design(which is also a very vague description) or some design features not found in a different model.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,224
W
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,224
Duplicate deleted.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 37
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 37
For my home I think the model A is the best design.

But If I were to perform in an cocktail lounge I would choose a B as the best design, on the other hand if I were to play in a large concert I hall then it would be the D.

If I were a Steinway design engineer I would design a piano for classical music, another for Pop/country and I would sell Mason and Hamlin BB for Jazz.


The hard is what makes it great. If it was easy everyone would do it!
Tom Hanks
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,703
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,703
There is some difference in the quality of the lower range of these two models. Otherwise, they are quite similar. The other differences between them may come down to the individual instrument, rather than the length or design.


Semipro Tech
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 58
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by pyropaul
My understanding is that that A III was the best designed Steinway yet. However, all the designs evolve over time to some extent, but the basics were laid down by the end of the 1890s.

Paul.

I'd second this. I'm no Steinway expert and I'll happily stand corrected but I think, of the As, the AIII was considered the best and some have even stated it's the best scale design Steinway had. The Bs have a reputation that precedes them though I have heard that the AIII was a scaled down B. Personally I don't think any piano much shorter than 7 feet has a bass I could love so would opt for the B every time.

But in some ways why worry about whether the piano you bought is the best design. Each instrument has it's own voice and Steinways arguably have a greater variance in tone/voice within a model compared to any other manufacturer. It shouldn't matter what others think. A piano that you love is one that inspires you to play. If your piano does that then you've found the right piano for you.

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,963
J
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,963
I want to ask how can you separate how a piano sounds, from the quality of its design?

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 115
G
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 115
I'm genuinely curious. When referring to the scale design, what exactly is this and why does it matter?

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,126
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 30,126
Although I have read many times that the A in general and A3 in particular were the "best" designs, I have never read any explanation, even from those claiming this, why they felt that was the case. Does anyone have any specifics about this? What criteria are even used to say one design is superior to another?

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Aritempor

Not worried
Not concerned

Just like learning as much info as possible.


Emerson Upright (1920's)
Westbrook Spinet (1970)
Schomacker Model A (1912)
Steinway Model A (1912)
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
good point pianoloverus

kind of why I asked the questions LOL


Emerson Upright (1920's)
Westbrook Spinet (1970)
Schomacker Model A (1912)
Steinway Model A (1912)
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 285
Z
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Z
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Although I have read many times that the A in general and A3 in particular were the "best" designs, I have never read any explanation, even from those claiming this, why they felt that was the case. Does anyone have any specifics about this? What criteria are even used to say one design is superior to another?
It means the marketing target is the people with those characteristics, or used as a home furniture.


1970s' Petrof 125
youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrY5TdJHAB6HAYYgdgQliww
recent added: Beethoven woo80 var1-3 arpeggio test
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,224
W
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,224
The Bath Piano Shop Steinway Model A review I mentioned has some interesting details amidst its hype.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,585
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,585
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
Which Steinway is considered a better made/designed Grand Piano:
But was wondering about a DESIGN COMPARISON of an A II vs a B?

Thoughts? I'm not asking which plays better or sounds better (that is an individual thing)
I'm thinking on terms of 'Design'!

OR ALSO: What is considered Steinway's best DESIGNED piano?

Your questions are sort of confusing. For what it's worth, I've been teaching on various iterations of the NY model B (from new to rebuilt to worn out), and the current-production A2 in university piano teaching studios over the last 15 years.
I think both share the same action and key lengths.
The string scales are obviously different in the lower third of the instruments. The tenor of the A-2 has a distinct sound on those wound strings on the treble bridge that some like and some don't. The B is plain wire strings all the way down the treble bridge, which can occasionally be tonally troublesome on the lowest note. The B has more presence and depth to the bass than the A2, but I wouldn't consider the bass of most model B pianos to be massively powerful, compared to other designs out of the US/Europe/Japan (most of which are more recent) in the 7-foot size class for higher-end pianos. Like BDB, I don't hear much difference in the treble between the two.

Quality-wise, they seem pretty much the same to me in the modern era. Competitors have said that they sometimes reserve their best soundboard wood for the B/D, but I'm not sure that's the case nowadays. Of course, one of the biggest differences if you're shopping for a new one is the ability to choose between several model Bs at the factory, whereas you're limited to whatever new model A pianos the dealer has on hand with no factory selection option.

I find both easy to tune, and get good sounding results with either, unless there is something wrong with the pin block, stringing, or pins (on an older or abused one). The B is probably my favorite grand piano to tune, because it always makes me sound like a better tuner than I probably deserve when I'm done. I generally also like the feel of pins without tuning pin bushings, which is something Steinway does across the lineup.
The A-3, properly redone (these are old enough that almost all have undergone some sort of restoration) can be a very special sounding piano for its size. But they are a little hard to find, and even harder to find where the rebuilding work was done at a truly high level. I've played more disappointing ones than great ones, but when you find a good one, almost nothing else compares at that size.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,554
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,554
Hi brdwyguy,

Please keep in mind that piano designs from an experienced manufacturer (and you can insert any name here) are an attempt to appeal to the piano buying public and what the manufacturer feels will most likely be enjoyed by the broadest part of the piano buying public. There is an element of improving what has been perceived an inherent weakness, like how the piano transitions from register to register, which is also part of public perception.

For instance, when the Steinway model O was replaced with the model L in 1923, it was because they felt that the public wanted a bigger sounding piano. The O was sweeter and better balanced in my opinion, and the L lacked the same balance, but it was louder. By the way, Steinway discontinued the L and reintroduced the O in 2006.

I personally enjoy the model A, but I like the A3 best. One musicians who I have great respect for prefers the "sweetness" (his word) of his model A from 1895 (technically an A1).

Bottom line - what do YOU love? thumb


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Company
Visit one of our four locations
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Learn more about the Matchless Cunningham
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Thanks so much Rich
GREAT Information!


Emerson Upright (1920's)
Westbrook Spinet (1970)
Schomacker Model A (1912)
Steinway Model A (1912)

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
pianoteq keystroke sound control
by ronlefebvre - 06/23/21 10:16 PM
Bachendorff Piano
by trr04002 - 06/23/21 09:56 PM
Hardware for Pianoteq on an NV5S
by Vikendios - 06/23/21 07:39 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics207,676
Posts3,106,737
Members101,892
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5