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Hi folks
This is my first post here, and a bit of an unusual one.

I'm looking for suggestions for a (polyphonic/touch sensitive/weighted keys/reasonably priced??) digital/stage piano that can play two (or more) voices simultaneously with the facility to have them play in different keys, (so eg one voice is playing in C, the other transposed to, say, a minor third above).
IE so I can play in two keys at once in real time on one keyboard.

I used to have a Clavinova stage model where this was possible. I have a couple of other stage pianos but they are only able to transpose all the voices together.

If anyone knows of a model where this function is possible, please go ahead and list them.

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Yamaha CP-73/88, YC-61/73/88


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Yamaha CP-73/88, YC-61/73/88

I am glad somebody was able to understand the question smile . I was not. It seems like the OP wants DPs with auto accompaniment, where the keyboard guesses the chords from what is being played and add notes on its own. Is that so?


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Originally Posted by zzzuppp
Hi folks
This is my first post here, and a bit of an unusual one.

I'm looking for suggestions for a (polyphonic/touch sensitive/weighted keys/reasonably priced??) digital/stage piano that can play two (or more) voices simultaneously with the facility to have them play in different keys, (so eg one voice is playing in C, the other transposed to, say, a minor third above).
IE so I can play in two keys at once in real time on one keyboard.

I used to have a Clavinova stage model where this was possible. I have a couple of other stage pianos but they are only able to transpose all the voices together.

If anyone knows of a model where this function is possible, please go ahead and list them.
Most Kawai DPs with dual-mode allow for "octave" shifts between the 2 sounds. I'm not 100% sure but I believe only the MP7/11SE allow for a more fine tuning between the 2 sounds (possibly up to 4 sounds).

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Originally Posted by zzzuppp
I'm looking for suggestions for a (polyphonic/touch sensitive/weighted keys/reasonably priced??) digital/stage piano that can play two (or more) voices simultaneously with the facility to have them play in different keys, (so eg one voice is playing in C, the other transposed to, say, a minor third above).
IE so I can play in two keys at once in real time on one keyboard.

I used to have a Clavinova stage model where this was possible. I have a couple of other stage pianos but they are only able to transpose all the voices together.

If anyone knows of a model where this function is possible, please go ahead and list them.

Lots of keyboards can do this, i.e. let you layer (or split) two sounds, where one of the sounds is at true pitch and another is shifted some number of semi-tones away. Basically, you need to choose a model that has deeper synthesizer-like editing functions that let you change the pitches of individual sounds. The actual way it is done would vary by model, but assuming you're looking for 88 keys, lower priced options would be Roland Juno DS88, Korg Kross 88, and probably Casio PX-5S.

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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Yamaha CP-73/88, YC-61/73/88

I am glad somebody was able to understand the question smile . I was not. It seems like the OP wants DPs with auto accompaniment, where the keyboard guesses the chords from what is being played and add notes on its own. Is that so?
I think a split/layer is sought where one part is transposed by a non-octave interval, e.g. a third


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>> (so eg one voice is playing in C, the other transposed to, say, a minor third above).

Would the multi-zone capabilities of the RD-2000 fit this requirement?


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Yamaha CP-73/88, YC-61/73/88

Yamaha only has some popular presets (one of the issues I have with Yamaha DPs).

In Kawai you can make your own preset (very useful if you play oriental music as Yamaha doesn't have many of them).


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@Abdol, do you confirm on an MP7SE you can set different tuning for 2 layered sounds (not just in octave shifts)?

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Originally Posted by mmathew
Would the multi-zone capabilities of the RD-2000 fit this requirement?
Yes, the RD-2000 can do it.

I don't think the mentioned Yamaha CP-73/88 or YC-61/73/88 can do it, though.

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I never looked into doing that with my PX5s. I'm at work now and will have to have a look when I get home. Never had a need to do that on the keyboard. I usually do it on the software side myself.


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Originally Posted by anotherscott
I don't think the mentioned Yamaha CP-73/88 or YC-61/73/88 can do it, though.

Here’s what I found in the manual:

[Linked Image]

AFAIK a zone can be either internal or external, so it will be OK


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Actually I may be messing it up with the MODX, because on second read the CP/YC instruments support these zones for external MIDI only…

OTOH, the MODX supports both internal and external.


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Originally Posted by magicpiano
@Abdol, do you confirm on an MP7SE you can set different tuning for 2 layered sounds (not just in octave shifts)?

I’m travelling at the moment but will check it out when I get back home. If MP11 has it 7 will most likely has it too.


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Thanks for all the replies so far. For those having trouble figuring out what my question is (which I can understand, it's a pretty unusual request), I could simplify by quoting one line from my original post, namely 'so I can play in two keys at once in real time on one keyboard.'

IE I'm playing and I can hear two distinct notes for each note I play, let's say G and B; I play the next semitone up and I hear Ab and C (etc). It doesn't matter what the timbres are, eg piano and organ, trumpet and violin, whatever.
On my old Clav. I could have two preset 'tones' (eg Piano/Elec. Pf) playing together and transpose one of those so whatever I played was bitonal.

Cybergene's post above 'I think a split/layer is sought where one part is transposed by a non-octave interval, e.g. a third' is on the right lines.
Any keyboard (pref. stage piano with good sounds) that can do such a thing (with a pretty simple way to achieve it) is worth consideration.

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Originally Posted by zzzuppp
Any keyboard (pref. stage piano with good sounds) that can do such a thing (with a pretty simple way to achieve it) is worth consideration.
Ah, "simplicity" is a new consideration. ;-)

Anything else? Budget? Travel weight? You mentioned that your current stage pianos can't do it... out of curiousity, what are they?

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By 'simplicity' I mean pressing as few buttons as possible to get bitonality!

Budget - if I can find something that does it straightforwardly I'll look for a S/H model first: and I don't really want anything that includes a million extra bells and whistles (rhythms, dog barks, sirens, choppers, you get the idea)

Travel weight - this is for a home studio so not really relevant

I have a Yamaha P-255 and Roland FP-60

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Originally Posted by zzzuppp
By 'simplicity' I mean pressing as few buttons as possible to get bitonality!
In general, it will take a number of steps to create the patches that have these "dual key" attributes you want... but once you create them, you will be able to recall them easily. This applies to everything discussed so far... Roland Juno DS and RD2000, Korg Kross, Casio PX-5S (need to double-check that that can do it), Yamaha MODX, as well as all the others that come to mind... Yamaha Montage; Korg Krome, Kronos, Nautilus; Roland FA, Fantom; Kurzweil PC4, Forte. In used models, any of the earlier wokstations from these companies should be able to do it as well, e.g. Yamaha MOX, MOXF, and any Motif; any Kurzweil in the PC3 series; Korg M3, M50, the earlier Kross. etc. Along with the PX-5S, the Casio PX-560 should be able to do it to.

Originally Posted by zzzuppp
I don't really want anything that includes a million extra bells and whistles
Unfortunately, you'll pretty much get them. This is an uncommon need, and the boards I've mentioned can do it, essentially, because they can do practically anything. ;-)

Different boards will do it different ways, but most often, the basic concept will be that you layer two sounds, editing the pitch parameter of the second sound for whatever semitone interval away you want, then save that combination of two sounds in a user location for future instant recall.

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Can you connect the piano to a laptop or ipad running a plugin that does midi transposing and route the midi right back into the same piano? If necessary with a basic split so you get different voices?


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Originally Posted by MarkOfJohnson
Can you connect the piano to a laptop or ipad running a plugin that does midi transposing and route the midi right back into the same piano? If necessary with a basic split so you get different voices?

Success! Thanks MarkOfJohnson, for my purposes that's the best solution yet, and saves me investing in another keyboard.

I DLed a little app called MIDI Patchbay, connected my P-255 with a USB midihub to my (old) Macbook with Logic running, tweaked the transpose slider in MIDI Patchbay, and I have bitonality coming out of the P-255's speakers!
Only one (not immediately major) problem - MIDI Patchbay is an old (2008) app and doesn't work in my newer Macbook. I shall hunt around for something similar that will work with post OS Catalina Macs. Anyone know of such a thing?

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