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Hello! We are purchasing a piano for our daughter, who has been playing for three years and is quite committed to playing. We’d like a piano that would hold up well for the next 10-14 years. We are considering:

- a used Mason & Hamlin 50” from 1983 ($5000).  Some of the hammers looked quite deeply grooved to me but we would have a technician look at it. Our daughter’s teacher played it and very much liked the sound.

- a new Kawai ST-1 which is 46” ($7000)

- a new Kawai K-300 which is 48” ($9000)

Would really appreciate thoughts in which one of these might be better “value” in our situation where we hope to use it for the next 10 -14 years.  

Thank you!

I’ve played a LOT of used, older Mason and Hamlin 50s, most from around that time, and I never found one that was decent. The M&H50 was, at one time, a piano I was very actively wanting and searching for. I was always disappointed. Definitely give it a try and see what you think, but I always found the actions disappointing. Now, if we were talking about a newer M&H50, that would be a totally different story.

As for the Kawai models, I would say that the ST1 is probably your best option, since it’s more or less the K300 in a different case and IMO, is not worth the additional $2000 cost. The music desk for the ST1 is much nicer and larger then the K300’s. I had the UST9, the predecessor to the STs, and found it to be a wonderful piano with a great sound and a fantastic action. The ST1 is a new rebuild of the older UST line and it’s a nice improvement. I would highly recommend the Kawai Millennium III action over an older M&Hamlin 50 action.

Have your daughter play all three and make a decision from there, these are just my thoughts about it.

I grew up playing on a 1964 Mason & Hamlin H, a 42" console model. Based on my own anecdotal experience with that instrument , I wouldn't recommend Aeolian era M&H upright piano. The action was super-duper light and the dynamics went from LOUD to LOUD.

That said, what does your daughter think? She has 3 years of experience, that is enough to have an informed opinion. What does your daughter's teacher think? They might certainly have a viewpoint on what is appropriate for her. Ultimately, many of the factors involved in deciding on a piano are subjective. From a purely musical progress perspective, the player and the instructor should be making this decision.

Financially, you as parent and purchaser may have to temper their opinions to fit within your price range, but if you want assurance that you are making a good investment in your daughter's musical development, consider their opinions on these pianos as a primary factor in your calculus.

I would go with one of the Kawai's

I agree with the recommendations to prioritize the Kawai options. If you want a piano that can be used to learn on for 10-15 years, the action will be one of the most important aspects, followed by the hammers. The new pianos will be consistent and reliable, and likely not need much maintenance (beyond the regular tuning); whereas the M&H may need regulation and other attention, and still may be less than satisfactory.

A lot of people make similar arguments about the height of uprights as they do the length of grands, IOW that taller (for uprights, longer, for grands) is always better. But in your case, since you're not considering 50 year old spinets, I would think the action/touch will be more more important than the difference between 50" versus 48" versus 46". My first acoustic was a Yamaha U1, which IIRC was 48", but after selling that in order to move internationally, my next two uprights were 45" (Baldwin Hamilton 243) and 46" (Petrof 115). And in terms of height, both were fine (the Petrof was better than the Baldwin, but neither were as nice as the Yamaha! :P

Anyway, sorry for a bit of thread drift.

Or maybe not, your M&H is 50" while the two Kawais are shorter, so there's the relevance. My point being, prioritize the quality of the piano's innards rather than the external height.

One last point that also speaks in favor of either of those Kawais is that, if you want to upgrade or sell a few years (or 10 years) down the road, either of those Kawais will be better than the M&H in terms of resale or trade-in.

Good luck!

Sorry, one last comment! If $7000 is much easier than $9000 financially/budget-wise, then by all means go with the ST1. Ebonyk makes a good argument why that $2000 difference isn't worth it.

I would also add that the $2000 difference between the 40 y/o M&H and the brand new Kawai is probably a much bigger jump in quality than the $2000 difference between the two Kawai pianos. So that $2000 really is worth it. If you see what I mean...

I owned a Kawai K300 and just sold recently. At the beginning, I didn't know what is a good sound. So I just purchased whatever made me feel best bang for the bucks. During the course of learning, I finally developed the sense of good tone. Then I started to hate my K300. In fact, all my past teachers didn't like my K300' tone, particularly the mid treble section. Its very hard to produce soft singing tone in mid treble section. So I would suggest you to spend a bit more for K500 or any Yamaha upright. So my advice is, don't make purchase decision based on price and value. Its a big investment and will stay in your home for many years.

This was my experience, as well. Most were very beat up, too. It was massively disappointing.

There are and have been Mason & Hamlin fans that value M&H pianos as good to better than Steinway. I’ve never played their uprights so have no idea how they are. New Kawais are excellent so whichever of the two your daughter prefers should be a great choice. It’s good news that your daughter is really interested in sticking with piano. If she learns to read music and learns music theory, there is a whole new world of opportunity for her. If she can play by ear, that’s remarkable and can easily pick up other instruments to play. Keep us posted on your shopping experience. Best Wishes.

See, I prefer the K300 tone to any of the Yamahas near that price point. Just goes to show how subjective preference is. The K300 is the piano that convinced me to not get another digital and go back to Acoustic, even though I ultimately bought a K500. I did almost buy a Seiler ED132N though. Really liked that tone too.

Also, SantaCecilia, where are you located? Those prices seem a touch high. I suspect you have some room to negotiate.

A piano with deep grooves in the hammers is going to need new hammers at some point, and the tonal outcome is uncertain. An Aeolian upright with M&H stenciled on is not worth $5000 even after the hammers are replaced. Pass on that one unless the price is very negotiable. You might look at the new Baldwin uprights also.

Are these actual negotiated prices?
$5000 for an early 1980s M&H upright in largely original condition is an insane asking price. It probably didn’t cost more than half that, new!

In other words focus on the Kawais

I agree, most of the ones I’ve found around that age were priced ~ $2500. This one is still waiting, I believe the price dropped to $1000 a couple years ago. I doubt it will ever sell, it’s terrible. 🙁

https://pianoandorgancenter.com/instrument/mason-hamlin-model-50-upright/

If you are looking at 10-15 years, then I think there is very high chance you will upgrade to a grand or better upright around when your kid reach early advanced level. I am not saying an entry level piano like K300 or U1 can't serve your daughter to level 10. But just at some point, she might become more demanding to sound, touch, action, dynamic, pedals ...etc and would want to upgrade. If you go to Youtube and search for RCM 10 remote exam, you can get rough idea on how many kids practice on grand for their grade 10. Also compare the tone from student recorded from an upright VS from a grand. So I would suggest you to buy from the brand that holds up value better either new or lightly used.

Hey guys, I’m a senior beginner and want to get the Kawai ST-1 mostly because of the cherry satin finish, long music stand area, and beautiful bench. Also it’s the perfect height and sounds wonderful to my ear in all videos I’ve watched.. I’m in a townhome with shared walls and smaller volume is better than booming volume with a taller upright. Are there any posts where people who aren’t fans of its Indonesian manuf. have actual experience with a QC issue? I haven’t read of a personal experience.

Are you on the ground floor? My condo is ground floor and noise has never been an issue for any of my neighbors.