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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@Falsch: Good for you ... for not being satisfied with poor product performance. Go get 'em.

Hi Mac,

While I can understand that it's easy to adopt the "go get 'em" mindset, I'm not out to "get" anyone, or obtain massive compensation or retribution or something. I just want my E4-G4 (and _especailly_ F4) and G5 keys adjusted so I can use the NV-10 as it was intended, and without always having to take "special handling of some keys" into account.

If the tech leaves me hanging with "yeah, this can happen on an acoustic too, tough luck", that'll be very bad; on an acoustic, it would be fixed. The fact that the NV-10 is a digital piano should not be a cause to treat it in a lesser way; it is still a 9K instrument, more expensive than some new Kawai acoustic uprights (and very close to the price of a GL_10 in the Netherlands).


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The technician came by and left already.

I played a few pp and ppp broken chords with the pedal down, with the affected keys in them, and his conclusion within about 15 seconds was "problem with the keyboard's contact strip". (So no mechanical regulation, apparently... even though it _SOUNDS_ like keys that are misregulated.)

He tried pressing the keys himself to replicate the issue, but couldn't because he touched the keys too hard to cause the problem. It's really only in the ppp and pp range, where E4-F4-G4 and G5, but particularly F4, stop making sound earlier than other keys. If you just hit the key, it'll sound.

So I played a few pedal-down broken chords again, and also demonstrated the problem with the repetition speed (particularly with the F4 key).

Conclusion was still "problem with the contact strip; needs to be replaced."

If the contact strip is in stock at the service center it would be replaced somewhere next week; if it isn't, it can take "some weeks." So... to be continued.

At least I wasn't told to just live with it.

With regard to the connection cover: the tech took a picture, commented that the cover had probably "taken a hit somewhere." (Not in my house; when it was set up, two men lifted it right from the box onto the stand without issue.) I don't know if this is going to be replaced or sanded or whatever; but this is the least important of the two issues.

Last edited by Falsch; 04/20/21 04:29 AM.

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I don’t know what’s a contact strip but I assume the technician thinks there’s a sensor strip under the keys which is not true for the NV10.

What exactly is the problem you have? Low velocity strikes do not produce sound? Maybe the sensor boards above the hammers are too high. In the service manual for AvantGrand pianos there’s a calibration procedure that involves regulating the height of the hammer sensors through screws and I would assume there’s the same regulation for NV10. Also, since NV10 relies only on the hammer position to determine when to consider keys released, if there are abrupt releases (are there?) the check distance needs to be regulated which is a standard procedure for piano regulation making the hammers checked at the correct distance from the rail. If too big, the sensing logic may get confused and think the key is released. (Which is BTW why I think the double key/hammer sensor configuration in AG is more robust and tolerant towards regulation offsets)


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I don’t know what’s a contact strip but I assume the technician thinks there’s a sensor strip under the keys which is not true for the NV10.

What exactly is the problem you have? Low velocity strikes do not produce sound? Maybe the sensor boards above the hammers are too high.

Yes. ppp and pp playing often doesn't produce a sound.

If the technician thinks a part needs to be replaced, he can replace it. If that doesn't solve the issue and the hammers still need to be regulated, they have a (different) contact strip in stock. I don't care about the technology. The NV-10 is not a computer, so I don't know anything about it, except that it's a digital piano with a grand's keyboard.

I assume the technician knows there is no contact under the keys. If he's going to try and order one, he'll find out... or show up with a Yamaha contact strip (if the AG has one). That would be embarrassing for him, and extend fixing this issue even longer.

To make sure I'll send an e-mail to the repair center, so the technician can take this into account.


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Is it your understanding, Falsch, that he is a acoustic piano technician? Or does he fix digital pianos only? Perhaps you can clarify this with your dealer. The Kawai technician that assisted me is one of the same technicians that works on acoustic pianos. Including action regulation.

Another thing. Did he look at the key action? He should have removed the front panel to expose the keysticks and applied a lubricant. That would likely solve your issue.

Last edited by ˆTomLCˆ; 04/20/21 09:02 AM.


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I don't know. I shouldn't have to know. I'm just a piano-playing customer. I should just assume that this guy knows what he's doing, but because he was so quick to conclude 'contact strip problem' and CyberGene saying 'the NV-10 doesn't have a contact strip under the keys', I'm in doubt again.

Personally, because the key is not defective, I had assumed it would be possible to regulate it like an acoustic piano... except maybe for having to open up the entire piano because the action doesn't slide out.

I did send an e-mail to the repair center, asking them to check with the technician that he's not inadvertently having an N1X repair in mind.


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If I was you, I would forget about the “repair center” and ask my dealer to send out one of his Registered Piano Technicians.



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Originally Posted by ˆTomLCˆ
If I was you, I would forget about the “repair center” and ask my dealer to send out one of his Registered Piano Technicians.

The person who visited me today from that service center was sent either by Kawai, or by the dealer himself (because he got the ball rolling again after Kawai ignored the support form).

I'll wait and see what happens. If it's not resolved, I'll contact the dealer again.

It's a pity that the piano has been standing there for close to two months without being played because I can't practice properly. On the other hand, the first estimation for the delivery would have been around now, so it was early.

And yes, I know it's a relatively small problem and I could "play around" it with regard to the ppp and pp playing, but with a piano in this price category, I don't want to. In the end, when getting to pieces with fast trills again, the repetition speed handicap of the F4 key (and E4 and G4 to a bit lesser extent) will just be a limitation.


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Wow, did he play the notes at all? Feel the keys? I always expected a tech would at least look at the action, stare deeply a bit and you'd see all these mathematical equations float by his head... But I've never had a tech visit so idk.

Fingers crossed hoping you get it resolved.

You know, if you want, there is a comprehensive test mode with diagnostics for each of the key sensor positions...I know you're not into that stuff, but if you were it could give you an indication of whether the sensors are acting differently...


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Hello @Falsch,

Would you say your dealer is the more helpful party in all of this 'gedoe'?

I'd be interested to know who they are.

Cheers and all hopes for a good resolve in the end,

HZ

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is the test mode an inherent NV-10 function? or using midi output to study how each key responds to touch?
sounds useful to learn.

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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Wow, did he play the notes at all? Feel the keys? I always expected a tech would at least look at the action, stare deeply a bit and you'd see all these mathematical equations float by his head... But I've never had a tech visit so idk.

Fingers crossed hoping you get it resolved.

Yes, he played the notes a bit and felt the keys, but wasn't able to reproduce this problem as consistently as I could. He was gone in less than 10 minutes.

Quote
You know, if you want, there is a comprehensive test mode with diagnostics for each of the key sensor positions...I know you're not into that stuff, but if you were it could give you an indication of whether the sensors are acting differently...

Normally I'm a very technically minded person, and I've had my fair share of VST tinkering and having 5000 samples at my disposal. I also played the organ and had a huge Roland Atelier and Hammond XH-200, so I'm no stranger to technicality.

There's a reason I switched to the piano though, and that is to have ONE instrument to just play on, instead of tinkering with it. The only time I want to tinker with it, is when setting up my favorites or a Pianoteq preset.

(And in the end I'll probably end up with one Kawai favorite, one PT favorite, and then a preset for each PT instrument I wish to use. I always disable everything, and then add only one instrument at a time when I feel like looking into it.)


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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello @Falsch,

Would you say your dealer is the more helpful party in all of this 'gedoe'?

I'd be interested to know who they are.

Cheers and all hopes for a good resolve in the end,

HZ

I'd rather not disclose the dealer in public. But yes, they've been helpful, as far as they could be up until now. If needed, I'm sure I can get some more help there, even if it's only to find (paid) piano technician to regulate the NV-10 if it comes down to that.

I've been a customer at that shop since I was a kid (at which time my parents obviously bought the instruments).


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Originally Posted by Falsch
I'd rather not disclose the dealer in public

Hello,

I already suspected that, and fully understand, but thought to ask anyway. I'm just trying to paint a picture of who is credible and worthwhile among the dealers and piano specialists in our 'kikkerlandje'.

Maybe you'd like to drop a PM on this, and if not, that is totally fine and understandable as well.

Again good luck with your Novus' action!

HZ

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EDIT: seems that all this had already been said and I just didn’t see the responses. Well I’ll leave it here anyway...

Problem is: The NV10 does not have contact strips. So it will be interesting to see what kind of replacement part he orders.

With a contact strip the tech‘s idea makes sense: press the key too lightly and the contact is not closed. But in the NV10 this works differently: The optical sensor fires if the hammer moves and interrupts the optical sensor path (that’s a simple binary on/off sensor). This is contactless and either works or it doesn’t, independently of the hammer speed. So if a key registers fine with higher velocity and only intermittently with slower velocities, then the sensor itself obviously works, but the transfer of slow velocities to the hammer is not optimal (compared to the neighbouring keys that work better). Which does indeed sound like a regulation problem.

Sounds a bit like the tech has no experience with hybrids or the NV10 and simply jumped to the typical problem cause that he is used to from when he encounters a similar problem (soft key presses not registering properly) when servicing the more common contact strip digital pianos he is used to.

If this where a medical problem, I would say get a second opinion.

Last edited by JoBert; 04/20/21 01:59 PM.

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I'll be sending another mail to the service center, but also to my dealer.


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If I were you I'd just see who is the tech servicing the acoustic Kawai piano and go from there.


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I’m wondering what happened. 🤔



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Does anyone know how to check the age of NV10? Kawai's website only mentions serial numbers starting with an A, F or digit, but NV10's serial number starts with a G.

https://kawaius.com/technical-support-division/faq/kawai-piano-serial-number/


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You can ask your dealer giving the S/N. I did so.


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