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I should say this was never about looking for pieces of music for me to learn. It was just based on the observation that while learning SWW Op 19.1 when playing it at a slow tempo there was still something special about it. I have every intention of playing it faster and believe that I can get it up to or near the expected tempo. I was very doubtful about taking on this piece in the first place, it was my teacher knowing I like Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words who gave me the nudge to learn it.
The enjoyment I have got from this piece even at this slower tempo, just made me curious about what other pieces might also have this character to them. It was never about searching out pieces to learn.
I believe that specifically looking for pieces which would work well at a slow tempo (even when not intended ).
I am not sure I ever said that was what I was doing.
Kevin, You are right and i did not think you were. My comments were generic. There were 2 topics in your OP. One about the question itself and the other more about some improvements you were planning for that piece.
On the first one, my comment is simply that (which is the end of the sentance that you did not copy), for me personally, it is not a question that i ask myself. I believe that for most pieces there is a natural range of tempo where the piece works best. Another criteria is my own perception. So the fact that the piece could give reasonable results if played much more slowly, outside its natural range, is a possibility that is sort of secondary. Some pieces works equally well, played fast and slow, and there i follow my preference. But if a piece is marked allegro, i wont try to play it andante (unlike Wim Winters.... ).
For the second part, i was commenting that there is a 2mn (out of 5) difference between the pro version and your current one. So to gain tempo on a complex piece like this one, even if it is not going to be 2mns, is difficult. And to play fast, it is better to practice fast play on simple pieces. That said, your current version is nicely played and sounds quite good, but in my view it would sound even better if played faster. Good luck and Take care.
I should say this was never about looking for pieces of music for me to learn. It was just based on the observation that while learning SWW Op 19.1 when playing it at a slow tempo there was still something special about it. I have every intention of playing it faster and believe that I can get it up to or near the expected tempo. I was very doubtful about taking on this piece in the first place, it was my teacher knowing I like Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words who gave me the nudge to learn it.
The enjoyment I have got from this piece even at this slower tempo, just made me curious about what other pieces might also have this character to them. It was never about searching out pieces to learn.
You may already know them but three other Mendelssohn SWW you might like are Elegy, May Breezes, and Duetto. I think the first two about the same difficulty as the one you posted and the third is somewhat more difficult. If you check out some other YT performances, it turns out there is a wide variety of tempo for these pieces also.
I think most amateurs play below tempo, at least when a quick tempo is called for. Kevin, you play the SWO very nicely with a good tone. I think with the slow tempos, sometimes the long melodic line gets lost and the listener hears too many notes coming from the LH. I think amateurs should aim for a tempo that works to convey the melody. Having said that, I think you should try to increase your tempo of the SWO a little bit more. I agree with Sidokar that sometimes you have to practice playing fast and just go for it. Otherwise you get stuck in the land of slow pieces. I don’t know, maybe that is not a bad place to be stuck in, but it seems limiting.
On the first one, my comment is simply that (which is the end of the sentance that you did not copy), for me personally, it is not a question that i ask myself. I believe that for most pieces there is a natural range of tempo where the piece works best. Another criteria is my own perception. So the fact that the piece could give reasonable results if played much more slowly, outside its natural range, is a possibility that is sort of secondary. Some pieces works equally well, played fast and slow, and there i follow my preference. But if a piece is marked allegro, i wont try to play it andante (unlike Wim Winters.... ).
I am not sure why Wim Winters needs to be brought into the discussion. The idea of rewriting history as he is doing is both obnoxious and arrogant. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.
For the second part, i was commenting that there is a 2mn (out of 5) difference between the pro version and your current one. So to gain tempo on a complex piece like this one, even if it is not going to be 2mns, is difficult. And to play fast, it is better to practice fast play on simple pieces. That said, your current version is nicely played and sounds quite good, but in my view it would sound even better if played faster. Good luck and Take care.
I spend a good deal of my time practising simple pieces and trying to get my fingers to move quickly, there is no lack there. The lack of speed in my fingers is something I've been working on with pushing my fingers daily to the limit of how quickly they will move for a couple of years now but they remain stubbornly slow.
However at the point of where I am at with SWW 19.1 now, I am in the rare position for myself that is not the limit of how quickly I can make my fingers move, but having the notes securely enough in my fingers to be confident of where they need to be next and what they need to do. I think I'll be able to get at least a minute cut off from the playing time before I instead start hitting the limit of how fast my fingers will move. But honestly this piece is not the one for me to be practising for getting my fingers to move quickly.
Kevin, that was beautiful and not the least dull. In this tempo I may also be able to learn this piece five years from now. So thank you for your suggestion!
... Yes, I'm playing it slower than it is intended to be played, but in this instance it is not because my fingers can't move quickly enough, it is just taking me time to deal with the complexity, there is still a lot of focussed reading ahead while I am playing and I can only push the tempo so far with that. When I am more confident with the notes I'll be able to pick up the tempo, I'm doing quite a bit of slow practise to lock in the knowledge of the notes.
Quoting myself here from earlier in the thread to highlight that my intention is to pick up the tempo, that I am doing slow practise to lock in the knowledge of the notes, so that I can then pick up the tempo.
Doing quite a bit of slow practise does not exclude doing fast practise.
I am learning a Mendelssohn piece which is a little similar and has the issue about tempo being beyond something that can be reached. I did feel I hit a wall at 4 minutes a while ago. I have however got it sounding much better by only a reduction in time, which required some dull practice over very small parts of the piece, but also by adding in rubato. The rubato gives the impression of more speed, as its more flowing, even at a slower tempo. You can add more rubato easily at a slow speed. It sounds very nice and controlled by in order to play faster I would suggest you also need to try and play faster despite the errors. It is however up you however if you have taken a long time to get it sounding very nicely at a slower tempo you may wish to leave it there. I personally kept the 30.1 songs without words slow when i learnt and I just could play it up to speed when returned several years later with no difficulty.
I've not struggled to get to this point anything like as much as I thought I would when my teacher nudged me towards learning this piece. I think her pointers really helped. I expect to be able to increase the tempo somewhat but I doubt I can hit the 3 minute mark or even 3:30, if I can get it down to 4 minutes I'll be ok with that and if I can get sub 4 minutes I'll be happy. But I'll see, I haven't hit the wall yet in terms of speed but you often don't know until you have until you have bashed against it for a week.
I think you need to go through with a teacher and identify the parts which are holding you back unless you are very clear where they are. In a piece its generally ok to play faster but the harder parts that prevent you from doing this. Even in the harder parts often only specific larger jumps that may be the issue. My teacher did this and it was generally where the hand has to jump quickly and change position so very small parts of the piece. Therefore targeting specific parts of the hard parts that are the issue preventing the tempo. Practicing only this small section and getting this part quicker will mean you play the entire piece quicker. Often playing only 3 notes and then putting them together. It is a strategy to play pieces very quickly and very effective but it is not the most interesting practice. I'm not sure if it is the case for your piece as I have never played it. Good luck and thanks.
I am learning the very first of Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words Opus 19 No. 1. This is truly a beautiful piece of music, one of my favourites. I still have plenty of work to do on it and this recording is one played well below tempo with a number of mistakes that I've mostly been able to play through, but I think the beauty of the piece still manages to come through.
I am not sure that putting my recording up against that of Roberto Prosseda is a good idea, since his playing is just so sensitive, I am only doing it so you can hear how the piece should sound at an appropriate tempo.
But it has made me realize that there are some pieces that need to be played at tempo, while others though they can feel very different still have a lot to give to the player and listener when played slowly. The only other piece I have experience of that I think fits the bill is Schumann's Bunte Blätter. What pieces do you think still have that something when played at slower tempos? Does the change in character of the piece matter too much to you.
Probably best to listen to Roberto after you have listened to at least a bit to my recording first because mine will sound so dull after listening to his playing.
This is still a work in progress for me, to increase the tempo, to smooth out the overly loud notes, remove the ghost notes and reduce the mistakes. But even this recording I like how it sounds.
Great job, Kevin. You're carefully working this out well in a far better way than clumsy ole me would . . .
This is really wonderful in your slow speed, Kevin, as all said. The only moment - it is all a matter of taste - where I got out of the Mendelssohn-Bartholdy-feeling (and only for half a second) was when your 5th finger played the forte (gis) at bar 8. It was too loud for my taste. But there is of course a forte in the score, so it will as per usual be just my taste. I own 2 recordings, one on fortepiano by Olga Tverskaya (beautiful...) and one by Gieseking. Gieseking plays a real lot slower than Tverskaya, by the way. Both play this one forte not so loud and still contrast it fine with the piano in bar 9. Many words for a single note, and I loved how you play. It is most is admirable, and I am happy to have found the forum again^^. I also found your cat Freya while listening to another vimeo upload, and thought of my cat who is doing the same thing . Ah, cats! But this is off topic.
There will be a lot to listen to from all of you.
A little advantage we adults might have over young aspiring pianists is that many of us seem to be able to concentrate more on interpretation even if we are no Sviatoslav Richters or Emil Gilels or Marcelle Meyers etc. So I think there are quite a lot of pieces one can play rather below suggested tempo - and we might even learn from it. The world has come into our fingers via the mind, so to say, even if, especially for late beginners or "I will start again after 1 year of lessons as 8 year old", we won't ever play like the great players of all times. This is not to say very young people would not interpret masterly, but - there is also an advantage in starting later in life, knowing the recordings each of us loves.
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" 
. Ah, cats! But this is off topic. 
