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Hi there,

I am a bit confused about buying a new instrument and i would will like to get your opition about K-200 ATX3 and Kawai NV-5.

Actually I am wantering in which circumstances one has the edge over the other.
Which customer needs each covers best?

Thanks a lot for your time and effort.

Thanks

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I see it this way:

The nv5 is basically a K-200 atx3 without strings, but with speakers.
The K-200 atx3 is basically a nv5 without speakers, but with strings.

So one has got strings, the other one has got speakers. Considering the similar pricing I would take the K-200 without any hestitation, just add a couple of speakers.

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I am offering slightly different, and somewhat tangential, take here. I am all for acoustic pianos, and would not want to live without one. However, Kawai's entry model K200 would be too limited for me as an acoustic piano, and I would not buy lower than their K300 (or similar from other makes) which is where nice pianos begin.

I played all of these in shops, and actually bought a K300 for a friend after a longish search for the right piano (and the right shop for its suitable preparation). I did not like any of the K200's I played.


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Originally Posted by maurus
I am offering slightly different, and somewhat tangential, take here. I am all for acoustic pianos, and would not want to live without one. However, Kawai's entry model K200 would be too limited for me as an acoustic piano, and I would not buy lower than their K300 (or similar from other makes) which is where nice pianos begin.

I played all of these in shops, and actually bought a K300 for a friend after a longish search for the right piano (and the right shop for its suitable preparation). I did not like any of the K200's I played.

I thought the same. The Kawais too, were more pleasant than the Yamahas when I played them. I'd been thinking of a K15 or a B1 with silent features, but I don't think I'd take kindly to the acoustic features either. Maybe I need to try one or two . . .


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The NV-5 is better if you can never play acoustically because of neighbors etc. You can use headphones or just play over the speakers at a softer level. IMO the K200 ATX3 is better soundwise because it is acoustic, so if you can play acoustically at least part of the time, the K200 is worth the extra money (+~1000 euros in my country). As U3piano says, for the rest they are the same. The K300 is again similar but the acoustic sound is a bit nicer.

I play my K300 ATX3 mostly silently (practice, I am an early intermediate player). Acoustically perhaps 10% of the time. This will increase as my repertoire increases. To me, being able to play acoustically is worth the price difference with a NV5. I did play the K200 (as well as K500) in the store when I was piano hunting. The K300 is better, but only a bit. The K500 is better than the K300, but also only a bit. IMO there are audible differences, not denying that, but the K200 is still very beautiful. Check out Gamma (who is on the forum):

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Save a bit extra and get the k300 atx3

Might as well if Ur going to keep it for a long time.

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I have an NV5, and decided against the ATX3 series when I bought it.

My goal was get the best piano I could find. I'm a beginner and I'm not yet ready to select "the best" acoustic piano for me. The ATX3 series is nice, but I considered it mainly because of the digital features (which I would use most of the time). I didn't like the idea of settling for a "random", albeight good, acoustic. So I decided to buy two separate instruments, giving me time to find an acoustic when I'm ready.

As secondary reason I hoped that the NV5 was better "optimized" (engineered) for digital operation, because it's purely a digital instrument. I don't know if my hope was met, or if that's a missed opportunity. There are visible differences though. On the plus side there are different hammers, different soundboard design, and extra speakers. On the negative there are less soundboard transducers, and less "care" in the distribution system (digital product rather than sensitive instrument).

I'm very happy with the NV5. I still didn't buy an acoustic to complement it. Sometimes I regret that, but not enough to just get "any" okish acoustic. I think I'll sharpen my mind and ears by spending a few years renting different acoustics before I decide.

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Originally Posted by pppianomarc
I have an NV5,

I still didn't buy an acoustic to complement it. Sometimes I regret that, but not enough to just get "any" okish acoustic. I think I'll sharpen my mind and ears by spending a few years renting different acoustics before I decide.

Digital is the correct decision, you made the best choice. Acoustic is impractical until you reach the die-hard level. Even then there are so many drawbacks, uncontrollable volume most of all.

Having met many hardcore pianists, I'm convinced they're some of the deafest bastards next to violinists. You call them from moderate distance, they can't hear a damn thing. grin

Last edited by EinLudov; 04/27/21 10:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by EinLudov
[quote=pppianomarc]

Having met many hardcore pianists, I'm convinced they're some of the deafest bastards next to violinists. You call them from moderate distance, they can't hear a damn thing. grin

Ha ha I've spoken in semi-jest about this stuff; there are guys here who have 9 foot concert grands in their sitiing rooms or piano rooms. One I'm aware of has two; a Yamaha and a Steinway.
At least when you play in a band, you're stood in front of the amplifiers which hit the back of your ears, not the more sensitive front parts . . . (keep well away from the drummer! You'll hear nothing else if you don't.)


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Originally Posted by EinLudov
[quote=pppianomarc]I have an NV5,

Having met many hardcore pianists, I'm convinced they're some of the deafest bastards next to violinists. You call them from moderate distance, they can't hear a damn thing. grin
This!

And we’re not kidding!

We’ve been talking about ‘intimacy’ as it relates to the piano lately, and of course the implication is always that one cannot be intimate with the digital for the sake of it being...........digital!

Yet I wonder, can one truly be intimate with a huge D sitting in a tiny living room?

I don’t care how good you are, Barenboim, the D will overpower and overwhelm you at some point (the opposite of intimacy).

Now, if you live in a castle nestled in a remote mountain, and the ‘living’ quarters boast 20-feet tall ceilings, then yes, by all means ‘get it on’ with that there Steinway D!

But please don’t tell me I’m a freak because I get it on with my P-515; yes, an entry level digital is capable of intimacy; never mind something like the NV-5.

Heck, I’d take it to the next level and outright marry an NV-5! laugh


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Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by EinLudov
Having met many hardcore pianists, I'm convinced they're some of the deafest bastards next to violinists. You call them from moderate distance, they can't hear a damn thing. grin
This!

And we’re not kidding!

huge D sitting in a tiny living room?

the D will overpower and overwhelm you at some point

Heck, I’d take it to the next level and outright marry an NV-5! laugh

On the piano subforum we've got the hardcores always saying things like grands under 6 feet are unacceptable, the sound is so small, it makes one wonder if the heart of the matter is they've got more severe hearing damage than the rest of us. grin

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Originally Posted by U3piano
I see it this way:

The nv5 is basically a K-200 atx3 without strings, but with speakers.
The K-200 atx3 is basically a nv5 without speakers, but with strings.

So one has got strings, the other one has got speakers. Considering the similar pricing I would take the K-200 without any hestitation, just add a couple of speakers.

Many moons ago, just when a certain virus struck me, unfortunately rather serious, I was in the closing negotiations for a K-600 Aures:

Top upright with top action, loooong strings, more than just one speaker (transducer), the MP11SE as its core digital ingredient and thereby able to use vsts. Imagine playing real acoustic 52" with soundboard and strings equivalent to an 172 piano --- but combined with VSL CFX (or D4) projected by its soundboard speakers/transducers!!!

Only problem was the non ability to play Rach!! The K-600 was not fitable with a sostenuto pedal , not with the acoustic, not using the digital of the MP11SE part!

A negotiation with their european hq about a modified version was unfortunately interrupted by this nasty little virus.

I might have closed for €13k, but thats history now ....

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Originally Posted by EinLudov
On the piano subforum we've got the hardcores always saying things like grands under 6 feet are unacceptable, the sound is so small, it makes one wonder if the heart of the matter is they've got more severe hearing damage than the rest of us. grin

This is a good point. I also wonder why bigger pianos are always advertised as better. It is not only with grands. People always advice larger uprights as well. I can see one advantage, namely tone color, but otherwise I see big disadvantages as well. Loudness, as you say. Hearing damage is likely going to be a factor if you play a lot. Another disadvantage is heavy action (because of heavy hammers). Feels nice until you become older and you notice that your joint cartilage has disappeared....

Having said that, that is no reason per se to advise a digital. A normal sized upright like the k200-k300 discussed here is not so loud. They are actually nice for a living room situation, probably not coincidentally.

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Originally Posted by EinLudov
Digital is the correct decision, you made the best choice. Acoustic is impractical until you reach the die-hard level. Even then there are so many drawbacks, uncontrollable volume most of all.

Having met many hardcore pianists, I'm convinced they're some of the deafest bastards next to violinists. You call them from moderate distance, they can't hear a damn thing. grin

While in some cases you could be right, it doesn't have to be like that. You can have your acoustic voiced down and/or dampen the sound in several ways so you won't go deaf. My u3 was way too loud for my smallish living room but i dampened the sound successfully in several ways, and it definitely doesn't make me deaf now, especially after enough practice so you can play softer. It still sounds good after damping the sound.

Meanwhile on my digital piano I'm always wondering if i have my headphones set too loud and worried it will make me deaf, but I don't want to turn it down because i feel i need a certain level of volume for the experience to feel immersive. Anyone know how to know when loud is too loud? I don't know if I set the volume too high or i just worry too much.

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...but would you rather have a ‘dampened down’ U3 or a free-roaring NV5?

To get an acoustic and then have to muzzle it is counterintuitive; why not buy a digital and let that baby roar. Granted, the digital’s roar won’t make you deaf; unlike the acoustic; which will, again, unless you put a muzzle on it!

The acoustic is a wild beast that belongs in the wilderness. To keep it caged and muzzled in a tiny studio is a crime.

We’ve tried domesticatin’ the acoustic and the beast just won’t give in, so I say, be humane and let it roar freely in the wild where it belongs!

The digital won’t make you deaf!

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Ok Pete.. I have thought long and hard, but I can't defend against that.

Ill admit it, you and your digital piano boys won this round, but... mark my words, this is not over! mad

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Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by EinLudov
On the piano subforum we've got the hardcores always saying things like grands under 6 feet are unacceptable, the sound is so small, it makes one wonder if the heart of the matter is they've got more severe hearing damage than the rest of us. grin

This is a good point. I also wonder why bigger pianos are always advertised as better. It is not only with grands. People always advice larger uprights as well. I can see one advantage, namely tone color, but otherwise I see big disadvantages as well. Loudness, as you say. Hearing damage is likely going to be a factor if you play a lot. Another disadvantage is heavy action (because of heavy hammers). Feels nice until you become older and you notice that your joint cartilage has disappeared....

Having said that, that is no reason per se to advise a digital. A normal sized upright like the k200-k300 discussed here is not so loud. They are actually nice for a living room situation, probably not coincidentally.
I only think that hearing damage would happen if you have a large piano in a small room that's all concrete or tiles (not recommended). I think its more that with acoustic the sound emanates from everywhere, whereas on digitals it's from speakers, so the sound is very localized in the latter piano. Acoustics tend to fill the room better. I've played acoustic grands with very light action before, as well as heavy actions. That can be adjusted based on the preference of the pianist to a certain extent as well.

As for why bigger pianos are better, well, *all else being equal*, you have a greater variety in depth of sound and dynamic range on larger pianos.


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I have a GL-10, if either the NV5 or 10 had been available when I bought it I would have chosen the digital. There's less concern about humidity and maintenance with a digital, they're easier to move, provide a variety of sounds either builtin or with VSTs, and it's easier to experiment with touch and volume because there's a volume knob- so you can bang away and turn the volume down. I also felt the price premium to add the ATX feature to any piano model was disproportionately high. If I really wanted a digital and an acoustic, I'd buy two devices. Depending on your level and ambition, it might be years, if ever, before your progress requires an acoustic.


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Originally Posted by U3piano
Ok Pete.. I have thought long and hard, but I can't defend against that.

Ill admit it, you and your digital piano boys won this round, but... mark my words, this is not over! mad
grin

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Long pianos have much better bass sound. My grand is just under 6 feet. I like it a lot. When I play a concert grand, the bass is just plain nicer.


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