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Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by pianissimo_
Then how do you tell it is brand new from factory?

If you have visited the showroom/dealership when purchasing, you can take note of the serial number. Most dealerships also put in the serial # on your invoice. If you're buying without visiting, make the transaction over phone, and insist they send you the bill/invoice with the serial # on it.

If you're buying from a Yamaha authorized dealer, you can be sure that they are selling you the brand new.

It's much easier, and cleaner for both dealer and buyer (I speak for myself) to pre-assemble, then deliver and place in a room of choice.


I see. So how can we use the serial number to verify? I googled and only found "Piano Serial Number Lookup" for acoustic. Is there a way for hybrid as well to check the model information?

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I wonder if there's much value to have them deliver the boxes straight to the house, break it down and assemble it at the house, just so you can keep the boxes/packaging materials so they can be handy if you ever decide to move it to another house later yourself. Surely, it'd be a better option to put it back to the original packaging for best protection, instead of just plastic wrap or blanket wrap it for a traditional move.

Of course this is assuming that space to store the original packaging is not an issue for you.

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If you use a usb lead to connect n1x to pc/laptop can you change the buffer size of a vst or are you stuck with 10ms or whatever its set at? Can you get the latency down more than what's initially set? As I've heard it's about 10ms or over, i currently use 64 buffer size to get latency of approx 5ms or less which is ideal for me.

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You can change the buffer size and the latency will change as well (as reported by the DAW for instance). However depending on who knows what, in certain cases even at buffer size of 32 the latency is high. But it changes, so when you increase the buffer size, the latency becomes even higher.

Somebody has to try with the Steinberg driver. I've only tested with the class-compliant default connection without drivers. And now I have only a M1 Mac.


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Originally Posted by Volusiano
I wonder if there's much value to have them deliver the boxes straight to the house, break it down and assemble it at the house, just so you can keep the boxes/packaging materials so they can be handy if you ever decide to move it to another house later yourself. Surely, it'd be a better option to put it back to the original packaging for best protection, instead of just plastic wrap or blanket wrap it for a traditional move.

Of course this is assuming that space to store the original packaging is not an issue for you.


Yep. I expect to be moving around next year myself.

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Originally Posted by pianissimo_
I see. So how can we use the serial number to verify? I googled and only found "Piano Serial Number Lookup" for acoustic. Is there a way for hybrid as well to check the model information?

Yamaha will probably verify authenticity of acoustic pianos made by them, but I doubt they will do that for digital products (the hybrid is a DP.) Even if they can verify, they won't be able to tell you if the dealer sold you a new or used product.

I mentioned about the serial number, because in my case, it was a hand written bill, and the dealer put the serial number on it after I made the payment. Good old fashioned way of purchase. Since I had visited the store already and talked to them in person, I trust them, although I didn't physically see the boxes in front of me. They were in their warehouse.

There is a level of trust between buyer and dealer that's required here :-) So I'd suggest you contact them through some means to see if you are willing to trust them.


---
After the purchase and delivery, if for some reason you believe that they have given you a used item instead of new, any authorized dealer will accept a return within the period specified (usually 30 days.) But you will have to work out the logistics of a return yourself or negotiate with the dealer to help you move the instrument back to the store.

Last edited by mmathew; 04/21/21 03:36 PM.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
You can change the buffer size and the latency will change as well (as reported by the DAW for instance). However depending on who knows what, in certain cases even at buffer size of 32 the latency is high. But it changes, so when you increase the buffer size, the latency becomes even higher.

Somebody has to try with the Steinberg driver. I've only tested with the class-compliant default connection without drivers. And now I have only a M1 Mac.

So in summary can you get decent results with low latency and a very enjoyable experience with a vst through the n1x usb audio interface? I have a separate audio interface, a ur22, but would rather just use the one lead from n1x to my laptop without the need and space taken up from the ur22. I'd rather just use the one printer cable usb I have without having to feed another audio able also as I. Currently do, I achieve good results though as I'm using a good interface and low latency buffer size of 64

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Originally Posted by mwf
Originally Posted by CyberGene
You can change the buffer size and the latency will change as well (as reported by the DAW for instance). However depending on who knows what, in certain cases even at buffer size of 32 the latency is high. But it changes, so when you increase the buffer size, the latency becomes even higher.

Somebody has to try with the Steinberg driver. I've only tested with the class-compliant default connection without drivers. And now I have only a M1 Mac.

So in summary can you get decent results with low latency and a very enjoyable experience with a vst through the n1x usb audio interface? I have a separate audio interface, a ur22, but would rather just use the one lead from n1x to my laptop without the need and space taken up from the ur22. I'd rather just use the one printer cable usb I have without having to feed another audio able also as I. Currently do, I achieve good results though as I'm using a good interface and low latency buffer size of 64

I get latency of 10 mseconds with a buffer size of 48. If I set the size to 32, I get a crackle and latency of 9 mseconds. As a result, 10 seconds is the limit. I don't know if it is possible to get a lower latency, because it takes about 5 milliseconds for comfort. And I am using a quite good laptop with a processor Intel® Core™ i7-10750H Processor, official steinberg Yamaha drivers downloaded. Also with a separate audio interface Zoom UAC1 and Asio4all it will be about 5ms, but I only want to use the built in Yamaha N1X.


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I get good latency on my MacBook Air M1 when I set the buffer size at 32, however I have to use the Aria Player, not the Standalone app. But I think this comes rather from the fact on the M1 it goes through Rosetta2 translation.

On my old Mac it wasn't good though. I've heard other people complaining too. Not sure what it depends on. Once again, even though it works without drivers, Yamaha offer drivers on their website and it's possible that those are required to have proper low latencies.


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I'd want to see the serial number only if I were buying a floor model at the store. If I'm satisfied with the piano's performance in the shop, I'll want to know that the same piano arrives at my home.

Aside from that the serial number means nothing. The serial number won't tell you whether the piano is new.

For an acoustic piano the serial number may tell you the year of manufacture ... but since pianos sit on the shop floor for a long time an "apparent" five-year-old piano might be new, never before sold.

For digitals, the date of manufacture may be on the serial number label underneath the keyboard. Given the current shortages I'd expect a truly new, never sold piano to have a fairly recent date of manufacture.
Even so, the date doesn't necessarily mean the piano is new. As mmathew said ... you have to have some trust in the dealer.

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So, I pulled out my old Mac Mini 2012 from the dusty closet and booted it to test how it works with the N1X. (It was previously hooked to the Cybrid).

I tested all possible combinations between using the standalone app or the Aria player, the Mini's audio out vs the N1X as audio interface and various buffer sizes.

Conclusions: all configurations work but at buffer size of 32 there are occasional pops. At 64 it's flawless. Through the Mini's audio the latency is very low. Through the N1X it's only very slightly higher but still good enough. Nothing like my memories with the MacBook 12". Aria vs standalone doesn't seem to make a difference although on my MacBook Air M1 the Aria player was better because through Rosetta the things are already at the edge, so every single optimization counts. Obviously the Aria player is slightly leaner on resources.

----

And an interesting observation. Someone asked regarding the touch curve I use on the N1X with Garritan CFX. Well, so far I used the default one. But I tested the more sensitive one (that is activated with "piano" + highest Bb key). Well, the piano suddenly becomes brighter, having a higher dynamic range and more open. It was great for Bach and WTC. OTOH, with the default response it stays at soft and velvety velocities, without huge dynamic range and I think I like it more for the lyrical pieces I play. I think I will find use for both.

----

Second observation: the una-corda pedal on the Garritan CFX is fantastic! It's like having an entirely different piano timbre. I already applied it to some Scriabin pieces I play, for instance I apply the una-corda on repeating a phrase and it creates a very nice variation through the different timbre. I'm still novice to using both pedals simultaneously and so it was a bit awkward but is definitely something I'm gonna learn and use a lot. All big pianists I see in concerts seem to use the una-corda all the time, applying it selectively even on a per-note basis, so I'm definitely going to study and apply that too.


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I like to set the touch sensitivity to 1 ("piano" + highest Bb key) on my N3X when playing with the speakers and that will reduce some muffleness of the built-in speaker. I use default touch sensitivity when using headphones and VSTs.


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Hello All, I've followed parts of this thread with great interest. I'm currently using a Roland HP307 (with Garritan CFX) and I want to move to the N1X. I can't find a place to try it in my area as no dealer have any hybrid (Yamaha or Kawai) for demonstration. Is there anyone who have completed the move from a Roland PHAIII to the N1X (or any other hybrid) that can tell their experience with the action of the N1X compared to playing with the PHAIII?

Thanks!
Guy


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Originally Posted by Guy Turcotte
Hello All, I've followed parts of this thread with great interest. I'm currently using a Roland HP307 (with Garritan CFX) and I want to move to the N1X. I can't find a place to try it in my area as no dealer have any hybrid (Yamaha or Kawai) for demonstration. Is there anyone who have completed the move from a Roland PHAIII to the N1X (or any other hybrid) that can tell their experience with the action of the N1X compared to playing with the PHAIII?

Thanks!
Guy

I wish I could answer your question specifically regarding the PHAIII comparison, but unfortunately, I've never tried it. I can say that compared to Kawai and Yamaha's best (non-hybrid) Digital piano actions the difference really is night and day. I've owned the best Yamaha and Kawai slabs available and none of them felt like an acoustic piano action. I can't imagine that the PHAIII would be any better, but I can't say for sure since I haven't tried it.

The hybrid actions (N1X/NV10) are better if you want an action that feels and plays like an acoustic piano. The rest of the digital (folded) actions are fine if you don't mind having something that doesn't feel and play like an acoustic piano.

I feel that owning an N1X has not made me a better piano player. There are no songs that I play on the N1X that I couldn't play just as good on any other digital piano. The difference is that I enjoy the N1X hybrid experience. I like the illusion of playing a real acoustic piano that the N1X offers. I actually do feel that I can transition to acoustic pianos more comfortably. I have an opportunity to play a few acoustic grands on a regular basis.

It was a big financial commitment (for me) to move up to the N1X, but I feel it was worth it given the amount of time I spend playing. Life on this earth is fragile and short. I want to get the most out of it that I can in a wholesome way. Hope this helps.

God Bless,
David


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Hello,

Originally Posted by David B
I feel that owning an N1X has not made me a better piano player. There are no songs that I play on the N1X that I couldn't play just as good on any other digital piano. The difference is that I enjoy the N1X hybrid experience. I like the illusion of playing a real acoustic piano that the N1X offers. I actually do feel that I can transition to acoustic pianos more comfortably. I have an opportunity to play a few acoustic grands on a regular basis.

It was a big financial commitment (for me) to move up to the N1X, but I feel it was worth it given the amount of time I spend playing. Life on this earth is fragile and short. I want to get the most out of it that I can in a wholesome way. Hope this helps.

God Bless,
David

@David B,

Once again I love your balanced and authentic observations, in particular the non-technical ones.

Thank you for your honesty in all you share.

Cheers,

HZ

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Originally Posted by David B
The hybrid actions (N1X/NV10) are better if you want an action that feels and plays like an acoustic piano. The rest of the digital (folded) actions are fine if you don't mind having something that doesn't feel and play like an acoustic piano.

I feel that owning an N1X has not made me a better piano player. There are no songs that I play on the N1X that I couldn't play just as good on any other digital piano. The difference is that I enjoy the N1X hybrid experience. I like the illusion of playing a real acoustic piano that the N1X offers. I actually do feel that I can transition to acoustic pianos more comfortably. I have an opportunity to play a few acoustic grands on a regular basis.

It was a big financial commitment (for me) to move up to the N1X, but I feel it was worth it given the amount of time I spend playing. Life on this earth is fragile and short. I want to get the most out of it that I can in a wholesome way. Hope this helps.

God Bless,
David
The fact that it makes you transition to acoustic pianos more comfortably already makes you a better piano player smile


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Originally Posted by Beowulf
The fact that it makes you transition to acoustic pianos more comfortably already makes you a better piano player smile

How clever/keen/sharp is that!

😀

HZ

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Originally Posted by David B
I wish I could answer your question specifically regarding the PHAIII comparison, but unfortunately, I've never tried it. I can say that compared to Kawai and Yamaha's best (non-hybrid) Digital piano actions the difference really is night and day. I've owned the best Yamaha and Kawai slabs available and none of them felt like an acoustic piano action. I can't imagine that the PHAIII would be any better, but I can't say for sure since I haven't tried it.

The hybrid actions (N1X/NV10) are better if you want an action that feels and plays like an acoustic piano. The rest of the digital (folded) actions are fine if you don't mind having something that doesn't feel and play like an acoustic piano.

I feel that owning an N1X has not made me a better piano player. There are no songs that I play on the N1X that I couldn't play just as good on any other digital piano. The difference is that I enjoy the N1X hybrid experience. I like the illusion of playing a real acoustic piano that the N1X offers. I actually do feel that I can transition to acoustic pianos more comfortably. I have an opportunity to play a few acoustic grands on a regular basis.

It was a big financial commitment (for me) to move up to the N1X, but I feel it was worth it given the amount of time I spend playing. Life on this earth is fragile and short. I want to get the most out of it that I can in a wholesome way. Hope this helps.

God Bless,
David

@David B,

Thanks a lot for your answer. Twenty years ago, I had the chance to play for an hour on a concert grand. It was a revelation for me. But no chance I had not the space nor the money to acquire one, or some instrument close enough to the feeling of playing a grand. 10 years ago I decided to acquire the HP307 as it was at the time considered a good compromise even if it was far from the target.

I convince myself recently that it was time to do a move closer and looked at both the N1X, the N2 and the NV10. I was thinking along the same line as your last sentences... hope to take the final decision soon as this is monopolising a good portion of my brain these days!

Cheers!
Guy


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Plus, during the pandemic, assembling prior to delivery limits the amount of time that delivery personnel are in the customer's home.

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Originally Posted by HZPiano
@David B,

Once again I love your balanced and authentic observations, in particular the non-technical ones.

Thank you for your honesty in all you share.

Cheers,

HZ

That was very kind of you to say. blush

Anecdotal evidence is mostly what I have to offer since I possess neither the physical technique nor the technical knowledge that usually accompanies an accomplished pianist. Although, I do know some good pianists who don't know the first thing about actions and how they work. Unfortunately, I can't lay claim to that description either.

Thank you for the nice compliment.

God bless,
David


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