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Originally Posted by Mac2010
So if I'm reading it right, there is no button to alternate the direction for sound.

Correct.

Originally Posted by Mac2010
Is this something that would be practical for digital pianos?

Possibly, however I'm not aware of any digital pianos with this feature.

I believe some workstations with multiple audio output do allow control over the routing for certain sounds, however the ES920 is not a workstation, and only has one set of (L+R) line out connectors.

May I ask why you would need this functionality to be switchable from the instrument's control panel (and on a per-sound basis), as opposed to simply disconnecting the cable or turning off the speaker?

Kind regards,
James
x


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Originally Posted by Kawai James
May I ask why you would need this functionality to be switchable from the instrument's control panel (and on a per-sound basis), as opposed to simply disconnecting the cable or turning off the speaker?

Kind regards,
James
x

They just need to buy the "Clapper." Problem solved.


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I bought a CA-79 in November. We love the action. We spend half the year in a cottage. I don't fancy the thought of moving this 160-pound piano back and forth every 6 months. I thought of buying a 2nd CA-79 for about 2 seconds (not that I can afford it), but the cottage is shut down and unheated for the winter, and it gets down to -40 degrees at times (central Alberta). I can't imagine the piano surviving that.

What about the Kawai ES920 with it's updated RH3 action? Anybody familiar with it? I'm hoping to find somebody who has played both.

Roland's PHA-50 action (FP-90x) is the only one I've tried that might be OK, but I haven't tried it (PHA-50 on an LX-705) since before we ordered our CA-79. It would be great to have another Kawai product though.


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Originally Posted by Wie Waldi
Originally Posted by playplayplay
The only thing is the key noise, that could upset my below neighbor (due to bad floor isolation or ceiling isolation for him.... ). We do not have key noise problems in the other rooms of our appartment.
I am in the same situation and made my mind on this topic. In my apartment the ceilings are not that well isolated towards body-sound. Unfortunately.


I have placed 4 Auralex U-boat floor floaters below the HM-5 stand´s feet and also 1 Jahn Piano isofloor below the screw of the F-302 pedals.

I will wait for feedback from my neighbors but what i have noticed so far is less sound propagation on my floor.

Last edited by playplayplay; 04/20/21 05:42 AM.

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Originally Posted by playplayplay
Originally Posted by Wie Waldi
Originally Posted by playplayplay
The only thing is the key noise, that could upset my below neighbor (due to bad floor isolation or ceiling isolation for him.... ). We do not have key noise problems in the other rooms of our appartment.
I am in the same situation and made my mind on this topic. In my apartment the ceilings are not that well isolated towards body-sound. Unfortunately.


I have placed 4 Auralex U-boat floor floaters below the HM-5 stand´s feet and also 1 Jahn Piano isofloor below the screw of the F-302 pedals.

I will wait for feedback from my neighbors but what i have noticed so far is less sound propagation on my floor.
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Mac2010
So if I'm reading it right, there is no button to alternate the direction for sound.

Correct.

Originally Posted by Mac2010
Is this something that would be practical for digital pianos?

Possibly, however I'm not aware of any digital pianos with this feature.

I believe some workstations with multiple audio output do allow control over the routing for certain sounds, however the ES920 is not a workstation, and only has one set of (L+R) line out connectors.

May I ask why you would need this functionality to be switchable from the instrument's control panel (and on a per-sound basis), as opposed to simply disconnecting the cable or turning off the speaker?

Kind regards,
James
x
I only ask because I have an upright acoustic that I saved from the trash and I'm converting it to house the new digital piano (ES920). My thought was to install a sound bar or two speakers within the acoustic (hidden) to get fuller sound. I wonder if the sound will be dampen/softer with the way I'm designing the setup, hence the question for the external speaker. In my mind, the external speaker would be blasting at my head rather than coming up through the back of the piano and then through the top (not sure if that makes sense).

Thanks for the feedback.

Mac

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Originally Posted by RickM
I bought a CA-79 in November. We love the action. We spend half the year in a cottage. I don't fancy the thought of moving this 160-pound piano back and forth every 6 months. I thought of buying a 2nd CA-79 for about 2 seconds (not that I can afford it), but the cottage is shut down and unheated for the winter, and it gets down to -40 degrees at times (central Alberta). I can't imagine the piano surviving that.

What about the Kawai ES920 with it's updated RH3 action? Anybody familiar with it? I'm hoping to find somebody who has played both.

Roland's PHA-50 action (FP-90x) is the only one I've tried that might be OK, but I haven't tried it (PHA-50 on an LX-705) since before we ordered our CA-79. It would be great to have another Kawai product though.

Hmmmm.... you might try the CA79's owner club.

My understanding is that the action on all models of Kawais is very similar, which is to say a very respectable emulation of a grand piano with a somewhat lighter touch. That is how I'd describe the ES920. Actually that's probably how others would describe it, to me the ES920 is not on the light side, the ES110 is. To me it just feels like a well-behaved grand piano. Getting the higher end models, to my understanding, just gives you a refinement of the 'Kawai experience'.


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Originally Posted by Randyman
Hmmmm.... you might try the CA79's owner club.

My understanding is that the action on all models of Kawais is very similar, which is to say a very respectable emulation of a grand piano with a somewhat lighter touch. That is how I'd describe the ES920. Actually that's probably how others would describe it, to me the ES920 is not on the light side, the ES110 is. To me it just feels like a well-behaved grand piano. Getting the higher end models, to my understanding, just gives you a refinement of the 'Kawai experience'.

The first reply I received last week on the CA79's owner club (where I've been active for 6 months) was "Hmmmm.... you might try the ES920's owner club."

The first thing I try when checking the action on a digital piano is the difference in pressure required at the tip of the key versus a couple of centimetres from the fall board, where ones middle fingers end up when the thumb and/or pinky are on black keys. Most have a HUGE difference. Also, with short key sticks and the fulcrum just inside the fall board, the vertical travel distance when pressing there is only a fraction of what it is at the key tip. The GF III action with it's longer key stick is quite good in these respects. Obviously I need to try the ES920 myself, but just trying to get some people's thoughts while waiting for a chance to see one in person. My dealer might be able to let my try one next month when it arrives for another customer.


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Originally Posted by RickM
Originally Posted by Randyman
Hmmmm.... you might try the CA79's owner club.

My understanding is that the action on all models of Kawais is very similar, which is to say a very respectable emulation of a grand piano with a somewhat lighter touch. That is how I'd describe the ES920. Actually that's probably how others would describe it, to me the ES920 is not on the light side, the ES110 is. To me it just feels like a well-behaved grand piano. Getting the higher end models, to my understanding, just gives you a refinement of the 'Kawai experience'.

The first reply I received last week on the CA79's owner club (where I've been active for 6 months) was "Hmmmm.... you might try the ES920's owner club."

The first thing I try when checking the action on a digital piano is the difference in pressure required at the tip of the key versus a couple of centimetres from the fall board, where ones middle fingers end up when the thumb and/or pinky are on black keys. Most have a HUGE difference. Also, with short key sticks and the fulcrum just inside the fall board, the vertical travel distance when pressing there is only a fraction of what it is at the key tip. The GF III action with it's longer key stick is quite good in these respects. Obviously I need to try the ES920 myself, but just trying to get some people's thoughts while waiting for a chance to see one in person. My dealer might be able to let my try one next month when it arrives for another customer.

So you're saying the depth of CA79's key travel is close to the same whether you're looking at the key tip or near the fallboard? Yes, there is a very visible difference on the es920. At the tip, you can see it has been depressed about 3/8-1/2 inch, and at the fallboard it's about an 1/8", or 3-4 times less.

The amount of effort to depress the key feels about the same, whether at tip or fallboard. I would think that would be the real test.


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Originally Posted by Randyman
So you're saying the depth of CA79's key travel is close to the same whether you're looking at the key tip or near the fallboard? Yes, there is a very visible difference on the es920. At the tip, you can see it has been depressed about 3/8-1/2 inch, and at the fallboard it's about an 1/8", or 3-4 times less.

The amount of effort to depress the key feels about the same, whether at tip or fallboard. I would think that would be the real test.

Yes, I think the goal is to have the pressure the same at both ends of the key, and the travel distance nearly the same. I haven't been back to the piano store since we got the CA79 in November, but at the time I tested some grand pianos (up to about $70k). The key sticks are so long that it seems like they practically move parallel to the floor (not quite of course), and the pressure is very close at each end, closer of course to any digital action I've tested. Kawai's GF III and Roland's new-ish Grand Hybrid (LX-706/708) are the two best I've played. I haven't seen a Novus 5/10, or the high-end Yamahas. The P-515 (similar price to the ES920 where I live) is horrible IMHO when it comes to these 2 characteristics. Apologies to anyone here who loves the P-515; I know there are many many people who do.

The key travel at the fall board of the CA79's Grand Feel III is about half of what it is at the tip. So, better than the ES920 which is to be expected as the GF III is a longer key stick. The pressure at each end is close. It's this pressure difference that is always my biggest concern, and your comments are encouraging. Thanks!

I've watched many hours of piano reviews and comparisons. Most make a comment about how much (or little) an action "feels like an acoustic piano", or "it feels more like an upright than a grand action", but NOBODY ever explains what that means. I have a theory that these 2 issues of front-to-back force differences, and downward key travel distance, are a big part of what they mean. Along with key-bed feel and escapement (let off), etc.


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I like the action on my ES920. I'm sensitive to short keys. My hand shape has my middle three fingers playing at the back of the keys. But for the size and form, better than most other slabs. Also, it feels that although the weight is neither heavy nor light (from my perspective), the weight is not commensurate with the response. Again, I really like it. Just nitpicking. After seeing this, I'm convinced the bigger problem is the guy in the mirror.


Last edited by Pacific42; 04/28/21 12:24 AM.
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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I received my ES920 just this month (Thomann in Germany to Dublin, Ireland via land and sea in just six working days - unbelievable). Very happy with it. A lot of exploring still to do, but the sound is just excellent. I’m really happy to be part of this group and I strongly expect I’ll be back with some questions in due course!


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Well, so much for Kawai's RH-III keyboard's ' "bouncy keys" or " I cant play fast triplets" on the Kawai RH III keyboard. Looks like she has no problem with the ES920 with RH-III. I know its all subjective, but how can she play like that On RH-III? Could it have something to do with the persons ability?
Ive always loved the RH-III in my ES-8. No complaints from me. I like it as much as GF-II on my Kawai CA-67.
This proves to me I can play this with much practice, in maybe 100 years.

Last edited by DonZon; 04/30/21 09:39 PM.

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Question:

Since I am still waiting on my ES520 that's backordered...

1. Is it possible to use the Kawai ES520 as a MIDI keyboard?
2. Is it also possible to hook the Kawai ES520 to an Amiga Tracker (FamiTracker, Modplug Tracker, SNES/NES soundchip tracker software, etc.)?

It feels like there are some information out there that I can't personally verify myself, that you can output sounds from the piano (SK-8) into the PC speaker (through whichever means, I don't know).

Last edited by Asperatology; 05/01/21 04:25 PM.
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Question: has it been agreed-upon that these new actions take a little bit more physical energy to manipulate the key action (excluding fast one note repetitions) than the older inferior ES 110 action?


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That was a marvelous rendition of La Companero. I like it with a little more rubato perhaps , but the technique was fantastic! Since a grand piano has 21 notes at the top that are not dampered, I was struck right away by how clipped sounding the Kawai 21 high note samples were up there. I guess they don’t have the sample memory spaces to provide a lot of sustain for those highest notes. They could loop them louder. I felt those 21 high notes were annoying sounding, too truncated. I’ve been playing the Garritan Abbey Road CFX and by comparison it’s 21 highest notes are much funner.

Last edited by RinTin; 05/01/21 05:03 PM.

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The short sustain on those notes drives me nuts. I really need F6 to have long sustain for one of my pieces to work well. I find Shigeru Kawais have the right tone/sustain in that particular case.

Long sustain is an opportunity for digital pianos to shine and provide a musical experience unavailable on acoustic pianos. Give me authentic sounding pianos AND THEN ALSO give me pianos with more sustain than even the best acoustics. Across the entire range. No artificial limits. The better sample libs have good sustain but modeling can do this using far fewer resources. Unreal (longer than any real pianos ever could) sustain would change both playing and composition. Challenges would be getting a l-o-n-g slow decay that still sounds like a piano.

Last edited by Pacific42; 05/01/21 05:57 PM.
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For the sound, I have try different settings and there is one for classical pieces (with sk-ex or warm grand) that I like.

On virtual tech:
UndampedRes. Off
Decay Time : 9
Release Time : 9
Temperament :Werkmeister.

With reverb On.

Concerning the key noise propagation through the floor (due to our bad sound isolation of the floor), our below neighbors have no problem anymore. It seems that the isolation with sorbothane has worked for me.


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I tried updating my 920 by downloading the V1.11 onto my Lexar jumpdrive and when following the instructions inserted the flash drive into my 920 it said "file not found". Tried various times and the same thing happened. When I downloaded the file from Kawai it comes as a zipped file and then I "unzipped" it and extracted the files onto the flash drive but it keeps saying on the 920 display "file not found". There's nothing wrong with my Lexar jump/flash drive and after even trying different jump drives same result. Oh well.

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