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Originally Posted by Sonepica
Originally Posted by GnGEmpire
Hi Sonepica,

I am curious if you have tried out Kawai's modern action.
A couple days ago I made the decision to go with a GX3 over an Hailun 198 because the kawai action was far superior. In fact was the most pleasing action i've tried. Also I noticed that treble sustain on Kawai is superior to treble sustain on Yamahas that i have tried.

I'm curious on what your thoughts will be about that. Their highest end line of course is the shigeru, which should be in your price range since you are considering some very high end pianos.

I've posted my thoughts on the Shigeru Kawais before. The dealer only had an SK5, so it's possible I would have liked the larger models more, but I found it to have a fairly weak sound. Not brash and powerful like the Yamaha. Given the sort of music I play, it wasn't right for me.
The Shigerus have always been known to have a "weaker" sound compared to other fine pianos of similar size. I've read from one concert pianist on these boards that he had to tell the orchestra to play a little quieter so that the Shigeru would not be drowned out in the performance hall. I think that "weaker" sound might be a result of the more mellow tone that is excellent for recordings where you don't want to overpower other instruments and in the recording studio. It's also nice for smaller studios and the home environment. Considering the fact that the SX7 gave you a "ear fatigue" in a showroom you might want to consider that in your decision especially if you anticipate the piano to be even louder in your home. Assuming you liked the tone of the Shigeru SK5, it might not be the most powerful sounding but it may be less fatiguing in your particular situation and that could be the difference between enjoying a piano in your home environment or regretting your purchase. My SK2 has no issue with sonority, I had to apply a bit room dampening material to quiet it down a little. The Shigerus coming out of the workshop I understand are voiced a little brighter than before and that might have something to do with it.

Also, I agree with Dogperson. Don't let us make this decision for you. If you really liked the Hailun, by all means go for it. I just had a hard time believing that that would be your #1 piano if money was not an issue. A Hailun rated by an accomplished pianist as being more desirable that premium Yamahas, Shigerus, Bosendorger, Fazioli, and Steinways cost be damned. It's certainly possible but it has to kind of make us wonder, what exactly are we paying for? Is it really just the name on the fallboard or are they really putting better materials and workmanship into these pianos?

Last edited by Jethro; 04/16/21 09:38 AM.

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Also, I think the Hailun is a great value for a piano that has many characteristics of Tier I premium pianos and if money is an issue I would go for one as well. I had a Kawai RX-2 prior to purchasing my Shigeru SK2 and I would have been perfectly happy with having that as my lifetime piano, but I was not kidding myself into believing it matched the quality and refinement of a Steinway, Fazioli, Bosendorfer, or the premium Kawais, but for the money I felt I had a piano that was a world beater. It's only because I was offered a great deal that I could not let pass that I purchased the Shigeru. I like great values and great deals. That just shows you're a smart shopper no matter what your income level. So if you like the Hailun because you see it as an excellent value, don't ignore that but try not to rationalize your decision. For example, I find that the Hailun has a nice tone but I found the SX7 to have more even tone up and down the registers.

Last edited by Jethro; 04/16/21 09:51 AM.

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I’ve been hearing about Hailun pianos since I joined PW in 2009. Some folks projected that since Hailun could produce such fine pianos at a significantly lower price, Hailun would put Yamaha and Kawai out of the piano business. The Hailun fan club projected Hailun was capable of competing in the concert grands.

AFAIK, that hasn’t happened yet. Perhaps in China, Hailun has enough market share to keep factory humming and doesn’t really prioritize the global market. A Hailun being superior to an S7X or an SK5, I’m more than a bit skeptical.


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Originally Posted by willpianist
Hi the OP
I think I know which Hailun piano you tried. There should be only one big Hailun piano in the Melbourne dealer in the suburb of Ringwood.
Hey thanks for the tip. I'm off to purchase said Haliun right now. I've been a fan of the warmth and projection of this model but have had trouble locating one until now. Thanks again for the tip! wink

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Originally Posted by Jethro
The Shigerus have always been known to have a "weaker" sound compared to other fine pianos of similar size. I've read from one concert pianist on these boards that he had to tell the orchestra to play a little quieter so that the Shigeru would not be drowned out in the performance hall. I think that "weaker" sound might be a result of the more mellow tone that is excellent for recordings where you don't want to overpower other instruments and in the recording studio. It's also nice for smaller studios and the home environment. Considering the fact that the SX7 gave you a "ear fatigue" in a showroom you might want to consider that in your decision especially if you anticipate the piano to be even louder in your home. Assuming you liked the tone of the Shigeru SK5, it might not be the most powerful sounding but it may be less fatiguing in your particular situation and that could be the difference between enjoying a piano in your home environment or regretting your purchase. My SK2 has no issue with sonority, I had to apply a bit room dampening material to quiet it down a little. The Shigerus coming out of the workshop I understand are voiced a little brighter than before and that might have something to do with it.
I have never heard of the Shigeru's tone being described as weak. This would be a flaw in a high performance piano, and I think it's inconceivable that Kawai would design it highest level piano with that characteristic. A PW member, Can Cakmur, recently won the Hammamatsu Competition playing the Liszt Concerto and his solo recitals on a Shigeru. I don't think anyone listening to those performances, which you can hear on Youtube, would describe the piano as sounding weak.

Great volume and great power are not necessary in a home setting, so for most people it's not a consideration even if one plays mostly Rachmaninoff.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/16/21 01:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Jethro
The Shigerus have always been known to have a "weaker" sound compared to other fine pianos of similar size. I've read from one concert pianist on these boards that he had to tell the orchestra to play a little quieter so that the Shigeru would not be drowned out in the performance hall. I think that "weaker" sound might be a result of the more mellow tone that is excellent for recordings where you don't want to overpower other instruments and in the recording studio. It's also nice for smaller studios and the home environment. Considering the fact that the SX7 gave you a "ear fatigue" in a showroom you might want to consider that in your decision especially if you anticipate the piano to be even louder in your home. Assuming you liked the tone of the Shigeru SK5, it might not be the most powerful sounding but it may be less fatiguing in your particular situation and that could be the difference between enjoying a piano in your home environment or regretting your purchase. My SK2 has no issue with sonority, I had to apply a bit room dampening material to quiet it down a little. The Shigerus coming out of the workshop I understand are voiced a little brighter than before and that might have something to do with it.
I have never heard of the Shigeru's tone being described as weak. This would be a flaw in a high performance piano, and I think it's inconceivable that Kawai would design it highest level piano with that characteristic. A PW member, Can Cakmur, recently won the Hammamatsu Competition playing the Liszt Concerto and his solo recitals on a Shigeru. I don't think anyone listening to those performances, which you can hear on Youtube, would describe the piano as sounding weak.

Great volume and great power are not necessary in a home setting, so for most people it's not a consideration even if one plays mostly Rachmaninoff.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Shigeru piano and I own one. I think it is one of finest pianos out there and probably the best value amongst the highest level of pianos, but I have heard pianists say that they don't project as well as other concert pianos in larger halls and I thought maybe that was because it has a mellower tone. I'll see if I can find the links where I read this. This might not be true however and if others are more knowledgeable about this they can chime in.

Edit: I reviewed what I wrote and yes you are correct. Shigerus in general, are NOT known to have a "weaker" sound. I was referring the concert EX grand compared to other concert that the EX in particular purportedly did not project as well as other concert grands in larger halls again maybe just of its mellower tone. I have never read anywhere else that Shigerus have weak tone so I stand corrected.

Last edited by Jethro; 04/16/21 01:14 PM.

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Here is a link from Piano Buyer from one technician in regards to the Shigeru concert grand and it's somewhat limited projection capabilities in larger halls. This may be a particular Shigeru concert grand though and how it was prepped and may not be representative of all Shigeru Concert grands.

article


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Originally Posted by Jethro
Here is a link from Piano Buyer from one technician in regards to the Shigeru concert grand and it's somewhat limited projection capabilities in larger halls. This may be a particular Shigeru concert grand though and how it was prepped and may not be representative of all Shigeru Concert grands.

article
It's not a good idea to generalize based on a single tech's report. This is just the opinion of one person, who didn't even give his name. The second tech writing about the Shigeru in that article said the piano had excellent projection.

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When I talk about a piano being weaker, I'm not sure I'm simply talking about volume. Some pianos have a quainter, more delicate demeanor. For example, some pianos have a polite bass, rather than a growling bass.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Jethro
Here is a link from Piano Buyer from one technician in regards to the Shigeru concert grand and it's somewhat limited projection capabilities in larger halls. This may be a particular Shigeru concert grand though and how it was prepped and may not be representative of all Shigeru Concert grands.

article
It's not a good idea to generalize based on a single tech's report. This is just the opinion of one person, who didn't even give his name. The second tech writing about the Shigeru in that article said the piano had excellent projection.
Well it wasn't just him. There is a university professor here in PW who said the same thing. He had to tell his orchestra to play softer because they were over powering his Shigeru during a concert because it didn't project particularly well.

You are right it is not good to generalize so those reading this take this with a grain of salt. That said, I would say I'm one of Kawai's biggest fanboys, (or at least I have been accused in the past as such), but that doesn't mean I see them as perfect piano for every situation. I do believe that the Shigeru EX Concert Grand is possibly the finest concert grand in the world, it's mellower tone just doesn't cut through the air as well as brighter toned pianos.

Last edited by Jethro; 04/16/21 03:01 PM.

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Originally Posted by Jethro
Here is a link from Piano Buyer from one technician in regards to the Shigeru concert grand and it's somewhat limited projection capabilities in larger halls. This may be a particular Shigeru concert grand though and how it was prepped and may not be representative of all Shigeru Concert grands.

article


Why is there a need to defend the SK? No one is saying it is not a great piano. You have one buyer that does not see it as his first choice. And? There were many pianos that were not your first choice, either


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Wow good luck and happy to hear this fine Hailun going to a good home. The OP will have to wait for the next one if he ended up changing his mind and wants to get a Hailun.

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There's plenty of Hailuns to go around!

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Originally Posted by Sonepica
There's plenty of Hailuns to go around!


Great to hear! There’s no reason then for you to rush a decision


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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Jethro
Here is a link from Piano Buyer from one technician in regards to the Shigeru concert grand and it's somewhat limited projection capabilities in larger halls. This may be a particular Shigeru concert grand though and how it was prepped and may not be representative of all Shigeru Concert grands.

article


Why is there a need to defend the SK? No one is saying it is not a great piano. You have one buyer that does not see it as his first choice. And? There were many pianos that were not your first choice, either

I don’t know that sure looks like a slight criticism of the SK from that there post but, ok.

Lol I’m more worried about my tennis serve right now as I have a USTA match tomorrow morning at 9. Any tips Pianolovers?


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I went to the Sydney dealer to play their C7X again. Comparing against the 214VC, Bosendorfers also have a very crisp, low sustain treble just like the Yamahas. So do a lot of pianos. So perhaps the Hailun 218 is unusual in having longer treble sustain. Playing the S6X and C7X again, I was pleased with them. They are delicate, elegant and powerful.

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Originally Posted by Sonepica
I went to the Sydney dealer to play their C7X again. Comparing against the 214VC, Bosendorfers also have a very crisp, low sustain treble just like the Yamahas. So do a lot of pianos. So perhaps the Hailun 218 is unusual in having longer treble sustain. Playing the S6X and C7X again, I was pleased with them. They are delicate, elegant and powerful.
That’s nice to hear. Either of them would make a fine choice! Enjoy your shopping!


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I'm now starting to wonder whether that particular Hailun 218 is a bit of a freak in terms of the treble sustain. I don't think you've played Bechstein or Bluthner... should be doing that just to make sure?

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I doubt it, I suspect it is due to the design of the piano.

I've played both Bechstein and Bluthner. Bechstein I didn't pay much attention to. Bluthner I didn't like. The particular tone of it didn't suit me. I don't recall what the treble sustain was like on it.

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So you now have three Yamahas in the mix] [S6X, S7X, and C7X? Seems to me that unless one of them is reaching out and grabbing you, it would be best to find the one that meets all your practical requirements and will allow you to grow. You need a piano, one of those will do the job. If you find the perfect one later at that dealer (Bosendorfer VC? A different Yamaha?), you will have trade bait.

Last edited by Maestro Lennie; 04/17/21 11:34 AM.
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