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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Does Pianoteq or Roland actually model the whoosh?

If you watch that video, between 6:00 and 7:00 the guy demonstrates how the Roland produces the sound of all strings vibrating, when the damper is pressed. No keys struck, just press the pedal, and you can hear the sounds of the strings as they are released by the damper. I won't call it a "whoosh" it's like a tone...

I was pretty (and pleasantly) surprised a pure modeling system like the Roland has modeled this behavior.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
pedal noise (whoosh or clunk) but it's typically just a "throwaway sample" like key-off/hammer noise. The half-pedal capable DPs will usually modulate the noise so that it's quieter or silent with smooth, slow pedal presses, and louder with sudden presses and releases, which better simulates an acoustic.

I'm separating my response into a different post. Because I believe there are two things we are talking about modeling/reproducing:

- the sound of all the strings vibrating (a tone like sound) when the strings are released by dampler
- the pedal noise (the whoosh and thud)

The Roland models both.

I am curious to know how well DPs, VSTs and hybrids do both...

It sounds (pun unintended) like the NV-10 does this quite beautifully. I found the pedal noise (from owning a CA79 previously) to be too clean, I mean very very clean - that it didn't sound natural.

Last edited by mmathew; 04/15/21 11:50 AM.

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Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Does Pianoteq or Roland actually model the whoosh?

If you watch that video, between 6:00 and 7:00 the guy demonstrates how the Roland produces the sound of all strings vibrating, when the damper is pressed. No keys struck, just press the pedal, and you can hear the sounds of the strings as they are released by the damper. I won't call it a "whoosh" it's like a tone...

I was pretty (and pleasantly) surprised a pure modeling system like the Roland has modeled this behavior.

I've watched the video but it's hard to tell how the effect is being generated or how "real-time" it is. I've played a lot of their older partly-sampled SN DPs and they have a similar "woosh" effect when the damper is pressed quickly; in those pianos I think the woosh was just a sample.


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I've watched the video but it's hard to tell how the effect is being generated or how "real-time" it is. I've played a lot of their older partly-sampled SN DPs and they have a similar "woosh" effect when the damper is pressed quickly; in those pianos I think the woosh was just a sample.

I'd love to hear from some RD-2000 owners the answer to this.

From the video, it sounded real-time. As soon as he pressed the pedal, the tone of strings vibrating was heard. The pedal noise (whoosh/thud) couldn't be heard, but I suspect we would if we were in the room/connected via headphones.


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The "woosh" and the "loom of strings" string-vibrating effect are oftentimes synonymous, it depends on how aggressively the pedal is released and how much of the effect the DP makers want to incorporate.

I think a good way to tell is whether the effect is different for the various pianos offered by the RD-2000's V-Piano engine. If so, it suggests the DP is actually using the note sounds from its unlimited polyphony engine to generate the pedal effect; more commonly, there would just be a single, recorded effect that's used across all the pianos (but I'm not sure about that).


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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Does Pianoteq or Roland actually model the whoosh? Most DPs nowadays have some kind of pedal noise (whoosh or clunk) but it's typically just a "throwaway sample" like key-off/hammer noise. The half-pedal capable DPs will usually modulate the noise so that it's quieter or silent with smooth, slow pedal presses, and louder with sudden presses and releases, which better simulates an acoustic.

I've heard pianists are trained to adjust their pedaling technique to minimize these noises, particularly for concerts/recordings.

The Pianoteq woosh is different for every instrument. I fondly think it's individually wooshed including the different clunk you also get. I think it's in stereo but might not be. It gives a wonderful vintage feel; unfortunately the smell of the inside of the cabinet is not apparent.
It should be! Pianoteq need to model smells.


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..and we’re back to the ‘woosh’; for a minute I thought we had previously discussed everything ‘bout the woosh, but no, it seems like we weren’t done with the woosh.

But by all means don’t mind me and mi trivial observations; go on talkin’ ‘bout the woosh.

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Elaborating on the woosh, when I play uprights if you forcefully hit the pedal and release you get a loud thud accompanying the woosh. Did the kawai not reproduce this at all? The virtual technician let's you adjust the amount of that effect
Did that make any difference?

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Originally Posted by InspiredByKawai
Elaborating on the woosh, when I play uprights if you forcefully hit the pedal and release you get a loud thud accompanying the woosh. Did the kawai not reproduce this at all? The virtual technician let's you adjust the amount of that effect
Did that make any difference?
Now that you’ve brought back the ‘thud’, would it be rude for me to ask about the ‘clickety-clack’?

I’ve noticed the clickety-clack when I play my P-515 with the power OFF; for some reason the clickety-clack is not noticeable with the power ON.

Anyone else ever experience the clickety-clack?

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What about the pedal squeak?

(I don't need it. I can live without it. I have "woosh" for down and "thud" for up.)

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Originally Posted by Pete14
..and we’re back to the ‘woosh’; for a minute I thought we had previously discussed everything ‘bout the woosh, but no, it seems like we weren’t done with the woosh.

But by all means don’t mind me and mi trivial observations; go on talkin’ ‘bout the woosh.

Well, you're probably right. I thought (misunderstood) peterws' original post as to asking only if the damper press made the keys lighter to play. He did reference a whoosh. Then when I chanced upon the RD-2000 video I wanted to post it, and specifically turn attention to the "loom of the strings" (thanks Gombessa, I like this better than "whoooosh")


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I wish they would pay more attention to making the proper string sounds, and less toward the whoosh and thud noises.

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But then we wouldn't be able to debate the relative merits of samples vs. modeled whooshes and thuds! laugh


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On the matter of the woosh, the thud, the squeak, and the clickety-clack:

May I remind you that we are going through a server drought and, therefore, we should be more judicious about what warrants using-up more server space.

So I propose we refrain from certain topics unless it is decided upon the collective that such topics are of significant importance, urgency, and/or relevance.

If you do not act voluntarily, I shall be forced to ration our limited resources by decree.

Please, I beg you, act responsibly and think about your fellow member, but if you don’t, I shall bring down the hammer bestowed upon me and be done with the woosh, the thud, the squeak, and the clickety-clack!


P.S.

Don’t even get me started on pivots and such.......!

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I always assumed audible wooshes and thuds were indicative of a lower quality upright

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Please, I beg you, act responsibly and think about your fellow member, but if you don’t, I shall bring down the hammer bestowed upon me and be done with the woosh, the thud, the squeak, and the clickety-clack!

Yes, but what kind of SOUND will the hammer make? More like a whoosh? Or a thud?


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Originally Posted by Pete14
..and we’re back to the ‘woosh’; for a minute I thought we had previously discussed everything ‘bout the woosh, but no, it seems like we weren’t done with the woosh.

But by all means don’t mind me and mi trivial observations; go on talkin’ ‘bout the woosh.

Nice to see someone writing decent English. but keep the 'ammer to yerself. You're not called 'Enry; you have no right to his trademark!

Last edited by peterws; 04/16/21 12:02 PM.

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