2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
87 members (AaronSF, Almaviva, APianistHasNoName, BlakeOR, Augustina, bsalad, 23 invisible), 1,454 guests, and 687 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
I don't know exactly how their dgx670 combination port works, but there's a software toggle between headphone and line out. I'm assuming yamaha can make something as simple as this work.

Last edited by EinLudov; 04/14/21 06:37 PM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
I've played the DGX keyboards. The sounds certainly are reasonably high quality. The action is not very responsive. I was not able to play the repeated notes in the 2nd theme of the Eb Grande Valse Brillante reliably.

While it is fine for a variety of musical styles, and I even considered buying one to use as a travel keyboard, I would not use the keyboard for a public performance for three reasons:

1) I don't think the action is engineered for heavy usage, and a failure during a gig would be especially problematic.

2) The only line output is the headphone output which, when amplified, will amplify the noise of the headphone output stage.

3) Getting a sufficient gain from the output so that the reinforced sound by the performance sound system fills the performance space may lead to clipping at the headphone output stage. Sending clipped output to a downstream sound system is undesirable.

I personally heard the cringe-worthy results of 2 and 3 at a wedding reception where a relative of the bride brought a similar Yamaha keyboard that was routed into the PA system being used for music/dance so that the relative could play a few pieces for the young couple. The owner of the PAs was lucky to get out of there with tweeters intact.

Thanks for the info and sparing me from insults. I will dig into it to know if it holds water. I know a guy from Yamaha whi might know or will find it out for me.

Last edited by Djengis; 04/14/21 07:51 PM.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,198
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,198
If you own the keyboard, you should be able to verify youself directly. The problems with feeding headphone output into a PA or keyboard amp for performance are not limited to Yamaha keyboards.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
I never had this problem with the DGXes which I hooked up with PAs before, but of course I don't like unexpected problems. What I heard is that the headphone outlet works basically as a line out.

Last edited by Djengis; 04/15/21 12:38 AM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
I never had this problem with the DGXes which I hooked up with PAs before, but of course I don't like unexpected problems. What I heard is that the headphone outlet works basically as a line out.

I think it is quite surprising that a good arranger keyboard with weighted keys hasn't come into light before now.

I can't see why there is this separation of arranger players from virtuose pianists. It is like either yiu are a pianist and then the arrangee territory is forbidden territory, or you like weighted keys but cannot have the fun side too.

Is this not just a discriminating fractioning of the market (not meant as a mee too statement)?

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,198
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,198
It does function as a line out. Output level is low compared to +4dBu pro line level that a PA expects. The question becomes whether you can get enough volume to fill a performance space without driving the gain of the headphone output stage to the point of distortion or clipping. The answer is that it will vary with the power and efficiency of the PA. Here is some info:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/headphone-outputs-used-line-outputs-for-line-level-gear/

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,172
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,172
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
It does function as a line out. Output level is low compared to +4dBu pro line level that a PA expects. The question becomes whether you can get enough volume to fill a performance space without driving the gain of the headphone output stage to the point of distortion or clipping. The answer is that it will vary with the power and efficiency of the PA. Here is some info:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/headphone-outputs-used-line-outputs-for-line-level-gear/

I used one myself at a wedding; it sounded good the waitress said. Better than the Bluthner baby in the next room. You'll never get a bad sound with a Yamaha but it is heavy and not made for the road.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by peterws
[quote=Sweelinck]It does function as a line out. Output level is low compared to +4dBu pro line level that a PA expects. The question becomes whether you can get enough volume to fill a performance space without driving the gain of the headphone output stage to the point of distortion or clipping. The answer is that it will vary with the power and efficiency of the PA. Here is some info:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/headphone-outputs-used-line-outputs-for-line-level-gear/

Nice guide thanks 🙏

Quote
I used one myself at a wedding; it sounded good the waitress said. Better than the Bluthner baby in the next room. You'll never get a bad sound with a Yamaha but it is heavy and not made for the road.

You mean a DGX. It could seem as if they kind of insinuate that it is meant for home use, since the tripple pedal only works with the heavy not so portable stand.

Yet again it might not mean that it is not suitable for use with a good PA.

Last edited by Djengis; 04/15/21 02:49 AM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by EinLudov
I don't know exactly how their dgx670 combination port works, but there's a software toggle between headphone and line out. I'm assuming yamaha can make something as simple as this work.
I agree with you. Yamaha is the most reliable company if you look at the amount of complaints or repairs, I read (but cannot back this up).

Last edited by Djengis; 04/15/21 02:57 AM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
By the way Peterws I discovered the country is posted for some including you. No need to play the detective /Sherlock.
I myself love and play Eltons music, mostly in my own improvising way although probably heavily influenced by his style. Yes what I heard by you could be anyone: I don't know why I thought of Elton. Perhaps because not many bands are piano based so one easily associates with Elton.

Last edited by Djengis; 04/15/21 03:05 AM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by Djengis
[...]I feel that I have a difficulty to time for example Fantasie Impromptu by Chopin, with the Yamaha GHS, though I manage it, but I have to use talent to do so.[...]
Why? What are your issues with playing that piece on the GHS action, compared to the Kawai RHIII?
Quote
[...]But I wish to have a DGX670 Xx with the keybed of the Mp7se which is fantastic.[...]
Shame on Yamaha for not putting a MIDI-IN port to let you play the DGX-670 from other keyboards.
Quote
I still stand by my words: That the overall winner is DGX670.
Yes, I also think oranges are better than apples if you want to make an orange soda. laugh
Quote
The reason is to find in the above. Also I wish to say that the socalled ivory touch is an overrated gimmick.

Who has sweaty hands??? I think those are not the average people: I met only one person who had this as an illness. I really don't buy that silly argument: who the heck invented that???
Maybe it depends on the age of the player, the time of the year (season), the humidity level in your room and your predisposition to sweat (which is not the same for everyone). But it's more common than what you think and it's not a disease (unless it is very prominent in every season).
Quote
Actually my fingers sit more firmly on the Yamaha keys. They slip more on the Kawai keys.
Maybe you suffer from too dry fingers? grin
Sorry I kind of went backwards to answer.
Yes my fingers tend to be dry as the skin of elephants.

What I noticed when playing say Fantasie Impromptu, was that I felt the counterweight of the Rh3 made me able to better time the playing of the keys, whereas with the GHS which is somewhat lighter and has what is probably called counterweights (what I described as a constant resistance (not to be a french rebel) when pressing down a key), it might be harder to keep up with the rhythm / timing of each keystroke. It is doable but it requires more of a delicate controle of the keys to time the strokes perfectly.

Last edited by Djengis; 04/15/21 03:23 AM.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
I did not correct it in time...

Sorry I kind of went backwards to answer.
Yes my fingers tend to be dry as the skin of elephants.

What I noticed when playing say Fantasie Impromptu, was that I felt the counterweight of the Rh3 made me able to better time the playing of the keys and has what is probably called counterweights (what I described as a constant resistance (not to be a french rebel) when pressing down a key), whereas with the GHS which is somewhat lighter, it might be harder to keep up with the rhythm / timing of each keystroke. It is doable but it requires more of a delicate controle of the keys to time the strokes perfectly.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by peterws
Everybody (almost) knows that you read between the lines of so called absurd threads to gain knowledge. Religious books are full of what might be termed absudities by many.
Read between the lines, lad. Between the lines! Find the Hidden Wisdom that makes our world go around. . . . .

So what you're saying is, Atheism, This is the way?
In the case of certain religions I prefer the atheist people since then they are more openminded, but also because I don't like religions consisting of human made restricting doctrines.

I believe in God and love. Who don't comply with being loving I don't trust or follow. So naturally I believe in Jesus. But I don't judge other people due to their religion. I just hope they seek to be loving which is the only commandment of Jesus and God. (However only God's children can love).
What Christianity has been made to be during 2000 years, seldomly concurs with the words of Jesus. But only the humans are to blame of that since we are born free, at least mentally if in shackles.

Last edited by Djengis; 04/15/21 03:54 AM.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,198
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,198
Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
It does function as a line out. Output level is low compared to +4dBu pro line level that a PA expects. The question becomes whether you can get enough volume to fill a performance space without driving the gain of the headphone output stage to the point of distortion or clipping. The answer is that it will vary with the power and efficiency of the PA. Here is some info:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/headphone-outputs-used-line-outputs-for-line-level-gear/

I used one myself at a wedding; it sounded good the waitress said. Better than the Bluthner baby in the next room. You'll never get a bad sound with a Yamaha but it is heavy and not made for the road.

My own experience refutes the never in your statement. If the PA or keyboard amp is overpowered for the size space, you can use gain staging to avoid distortion and clipping. There is a reason more pro-oriented keyboards have both a headphone output and line level output.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Djengis Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
I reckon you imply to turn down the gain.

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,172
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,172
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
It does function as a line out. Output level is low compared to +4dBu pro line level that a PA expects. The question becomes whether you can get enough volume to fill a performance space without driving the gain of the headphone output stage to the point of distortion or clipping. The answer is that it will vary with the power and efficiency of the PA. Here is some info:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/headphone-outputs-used-line-outputs-for-line-level-gear/

I used one myself at a wedding; it sounded good the waitress said. Better than the Bluthner baby in the next room. You'll never get a bad sound with a Yamaha but it is heavy and not made for the road.

My own experience refutes the never in your statement. If the PA or keyboard amp is overpowered for the size space, you can use gain staging to avoid distortion and clipping. There is a reason more pro-oriented keyboards have both a headphone output and line level output.

I suppose there had to be. The recipient amplifier has a lot to do with it; they used to have high gain and lo-gain inputs. probably still do for all I know..But the Yamaha sound is always good until it's taken away from the Yamaha device from whence it came . . .or unless a non-Yamaha designated person plays it.
That ok? smile


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,672
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,672
Originally Posted by Djengis
[...]What I noticed when playing say Fantasie Impromptu, was that I felt the counterweight of the Rh3 made me able to better time the playing of the keys and has what is probably called counterweights (what I described as a constant resistance (not to be a french rebel) when pressing down a key), whereas with the GHS which is somewhat lighter, it might be harder to keep up with the rhythm / timing of each keystroke. It is doable but it requires more of a delicate controle of the keys to time the strokes perfectly.
I'm not into physics but I think the counterweights in the keys are useful when a keyboard action uses heavier hammers (compared to those in the low-range hammer actions like the Yamaha GHS or the Kawai RHC). With heavier hammers you need more force to get a fortissimo sound (so, you feel somehow you have more fine control on dynamics in the upper range of velocities -- assuming the piano engine is good enough) but this heaviness would make you feel much fatigue when playing in the ppp/pp range. So a counterweight is required to make a key feel less heavy when you depress it slowly, and easier to keep it depressed.
I think a side-effect of the counterweight is the slightly increased "rebound" when a key is released and returns to its upper position.

Personally, when I tried the GHS action (in a Yamaha P125) I was positively impressed by the ease with which I was able to make fast repetitions and trills without thinking too much, while on the RHIII action I have to focus more on timing and the right amount of force applied if I don't want to get some ghost note... As a beginner I think a light action like the GHS is much easier to play, but I guess an intermediate/advanced classical player would appreciate more the fine control you can get on an heavier action.

Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
E
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 544
Originally Posted by magicpiano
Personally, when I tried the GHS action (in a Yamaha P125) I was positively impressed by the ease with which I was able to make fast repetitions and trills without thinking too much, while on the RHIII action I have to focus more on timing and the right amount of force applied if I don't want to get some ghost note... As a beginner I think a light action like the GHS is much easier to play, but I guess an intermediate/advanced classical player would appreciate more the fine control you can get on an heavier action.

When you remove the letoff, there's going to be a difference in sensation. That's going to impact perception and the timing that the player is used to. I'm not sure the let off or additional weight gives someone more control, but it may make the action more similar to what they were used to. That may induce the player to think or feel more in control even if the underlying travel and sensor read hasn't changed.

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,244
A
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,244
Originally Posted by Djengis
I never had this problem with the DGXes which I hooked up with PAs before, but of course I don't like unexpected problems. What I heard is that the headphone outlet works basically as a line out.

I think it is quite surprising that a good arranger keyboard with weighted keys hasn't come into light before now.

I can't see why there is this separation of arranger players from virtuose pianists. It is like either yiu are a pianist and then the arrangee territory is forbidden territory, or you like weighted keys but cannot have the fun side too.

Is this not just a discriminating fractioning of the market (not meant as a mee too statement)?


Yep. It hadn't had come to light before ... until you discovered this miracle of Yamaha.

You can also play Casio's SA-21 on the stage. Nothing is wrong with doing it.

Last edited by Abdol; 04/15/21 08:53 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,672
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,672
Originally Posted by EinLudov
Originally Posted by magicpiano
Personally, when I tried the GHS action (in a Yamaha P125) I was positively impressed by the ease with which I was able to make fast repetitions and trills without thinking too much, while on the RHIII action I have to focus more on timing and the right amount of force applied if I don't want to get some ghost note... As a beginner I think a light action like the GHS is much easier to play, but I guess an intermediate/advanced classical player would appreciate more the fine control you can get on an heavier action.

When you remove the letoff, there's going to be a difference in sensation. That's going to impact perception and the timing that the player is used to. I'm not sure the let off or additional weight gives someone more control, but it may make the action more similar to what they were used to. That may induce the player to think or feel more in control even if the underlying travel and sensor read hasn't changed.
When you play fast you cannot feel the (fake) let-off, so I don't think that is the problem. Paradoxically the let-off is more a problem when you play in the pp range, because your brain thinks you are applying a certain amount of force, then, suddenly, you feel a little resistance that changes the resulting velocity of the key travel to the bottom.

Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Moonlight Sonata, On Cello, Underwater
by AaronSF - 07/25/21 05:27 PM
Mini Master Class - Put a RING on it!
by Dfrankjazz - 07/25/21 01:59 PM
A phenomenal Gershwin pianist
by pianoloverus - 07/25/21 11:34 AM
Key Bushing with Leather
by Seeker - 07/25/21 10:55 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics208,202
Posts3,116,244
Members102,236
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5